Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

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MDK
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Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by MDK »

A majority of my DVD collection comprises VT programmes. If these DVDs are backed up/ transferred to an external hard drive, would they retain their VT look when played back from the hard drive on a TV set, or would they have a filmised look? Or does it depend on the transfer format?

Any advice welcome!

drmih
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by drmih »

If you just want to archive them then you could make copies to the hard disc. However, if you want the content to watch and stream, the dvd native resolution is MPEG2, so you can just rip off the episodes or whatever in that form without any re-encoding. MPEG2 is a bit bloated now, with MP4 or MKV the newer formats, so I assume if you match the frame rate etc of the MPEG2 and encode to say MP4, the output should be similar.

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The Black Nun
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by The Black Nun »

If you rip them straight to hard drive as VIDEO_TS folders then, yes, they will play back exactly like a dvd with no degradation. But not all media players can play them back with the dvd menu. WD players for example CANNOT and are useless for that purpose. My Seagate one does but they stopped making them. Can't speak for fire tv and all those other ones around now. Sony bluray players can via the usb slot, not sure about other brands. You can't use the usb connection on your tv either.

Converting to mp4 will only retain the video look if you encode using the "bob" function where it is converted to 50fps. Normal mp4 encoding will filmize it. Frankly though you'd be mad to convert dvds to mp4. It takes FOREVER, you lose quality and hard drive space is so cheap now there's no point.

You will also need to check the settings of the media/bluray player to make sure the output is set to 1080i 50hz. Sometimes they are set by default to 1080p 60hz which will filmize and degrade the picture.

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Simon Coward
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by Simon Coward »

The Black Nun wrote:Converting to mp4 will only retain the video look if you encode using the "bob" function where it is converted to 50fps. Normal mp4 encoding will filmize it.
Why would that be the case?

Certainly, if you were playing back 25fps MP4s on a computer monitor/laptop screen they'll most likely look filmised because the monitor/screen won't support interlacing. But with a television, would it (or an attached media player) automatically play MP4 files as progressive regardless of their encoding?
We all have to eat a peck of dirt before we die.

drmih
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by drmih »

The Black Nun wrote:If you rip them straight to hard drive as VIDEO_TS folders then, yes, they will play back exactly like a dvd with no degradation. But not all media players can play them back with the dvd menu. WD players for example CANNOT and are useless for that purpose. My Seagate one does but they stopped making them. Can't speak for fire tv and all those other ones around now. Sony bluray players can via the usb slot, not sure about other brands. You can't use the usb connection on your tv either.
There are plenty of free utilities which will extract the files from the VIDEO_TS directory and save them as .mpg (.mpeg) files without re-encoding, and I've not seen a media player which won't handle them - they're nearly the default. The advantage of this is that quite often, if your dvd contains episodes, they are all lumped together into one VTS set, accessed by pointers from the menu. If you rip them individually, you no longer have to worry about being able to read the dvd file pointers.

Bodie
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by Bodie »

drmih wrote:if your dvd contains episodes, they are all lumped together into one VTS set, accessed by pointers from the menu. If you rip them individually, you no longer have to worry about being able to read the dvd file pointers.
I'm always surprised when I look at some discs and find that they contain single files for each episode of a show and also a large file stringing all the episodes together as well. Is there a good reason for this? It always makes me think someone somewhere didn't know how to implement "play all" and "select an episode" without having different files to point the menu options at. Other discs seem to provide both choices without the need for the big "all in one" file.

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Bernie
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by Bernie »

Maybe they just use whatever authoring software they have and do whatever's easiest. I've used about four and they are all that bit different. I must admit that if it's on the DVD and it plays that's good enough for me, but then I'm not doing it professionally.

B

drmih
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by drmih »

I always wondered whether it was to ensure that a dual layer disc was required to reduce piracy. Although not so much nowadays, there used to be a large difference in cost between a single and dual layer blank. Therefore, unless you were going to compress it, or re-author, you had to use a blank which might have been a third of the cost of the original disc, but without the benefits, compared to a single layer one probably costing 15p. There are also anti-copying methods where extra sets are written to the disc to confuse ripping software. Saying that, I can't remember a disc with both individual and combined episode VTS sets - sometimes with films where there are two cuts, and they don't want a branching version, they put two versions on.

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Ian Wegg
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by Ian Wegg »

drmih wrote:There are also anti-copying methods where extra sets are written to the disc to confuse ripping software.
I've seen discs where the individual files have multiple directory entries. To a file system the DVD appears as having 4 times as many files, and therefore 4 times as much data, than actually exists.

drmih
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by drmih »

Ian Wegg wrote:
drmih wrote:There are also anti-copying methods where extra sets are written to the disc to confuse ripping software.
I've seen discs where the individual files have multiple directory entries. To a file system the DVD appears as having 4 times as many files, and therefore 4 times as much data, than actually exists.
I think BFI titles use this method.

Andy Marriott
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by Andy Marriott »

The Black Nun wrote: Converting to mp4 will only retain the video look if you encode using the "bob" function where it is converted to 50fps. Normal mp4 encoding will filmize it.
This is absolutely incorrect. mp4 (utilising the h264 codec) fully supports interlaced video at every recognised resolution. Fairly obvious really when you consider that it's the format of HD TV.

As Simon C says it will look de-interlaced on a computer but if you watch it using VLC with De-interlace set to "on" and De-interlace mode set to "X", "Linear" or preferably "Yadif x2" it will play correctly. This does actually "bob" the video into a progressive 50hz stream which closely resembles interlaced video...

GarethR
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by GarethR »

Andy Marriott wrote: This is absolutely incorrect. mp4 (utilising the h264 codec) fully supports interlaced video at every recognised resolution
It does indeed, but you usually have to tell whatever MP4 encoding software you're using to turn interlace processing on, otherwise it will default to progressive - and it's not always obvious how you do that. You generally have to know what you want and to hunt down the necessary information. I think that in Handbrake, for example, you have to add a sort of command line string if you want it to generate an interlaced MP4.

My own view is that converting interlaced video to bobbed 50p is the way to go, because then it will have the "video look" on any progressive display regardless of what player you use (not all players can bob-deinterlace on the fly). I don't own any CRT TVs any more, so I don't see any point in retaining interlace - bobbed 50p has the exact same motion rendition as 50i as far as I'm concerned. And of course, whenever you watch anything on your flat panel TV that looks like interlaced video, it's actually been converted to 50p by the deinterlacer in the telly before being displayed.

I just wish YouTube would support 50p/60p at SD resolution, but you can work around that by upscaling any PAL/NTSC material to 720p50/60.

Andy Marriott
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by Andy Marriott »

GarethR wrote: you usually have to tell whatever MP4 encoding software you're using to turn interlace processing on
Good point! I wrote my own GUI front end for 264/aac encoding with a simple interlace yes/no tick box, but I guess most folks have to fish around for the settings.

I am still on crt but LED TV's are getting so good now I may soon swap. As soon as I can find one in a walnut cabinet with doors...

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The Black Nun
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by The Black Nun »

With hard drives having such high capacity now there is less need to reencode dvds to mp4. I rewrap the contents to mkv files which allows you to keep chapter points and everything else that is on the disc but ditch the annoying menus.

You can use XMedia Recode to convert dvds to mkvs without reencoding. After loading the disc or VIDEO_TS folder, you select "matroska" under the Format tab and then "copy" under the Video and Audio tabs. You can then choose to add extra audio tracks and subtitles or leave them off. It only takes a few minutes to convert a whole dvd to mkv files which are far easier to browse and navigate than any dvd menu.

https://www.xmedia-recode.de/hilfe/xmediarecode.html

That said it seems a lot of people don't realise that many bluray players can play VIDEO_TS folders as virtual dvds with menus. You just have to click on the file inside called VIDEO_TS.IFO So you can just play all your dvds from a hard drive if you wish.

D M K
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Re: Backing up DVDs to Hard Drive

Post by D M K »

If you're a Mac user like me, then MDRP works a treat. It keeps all the Video TS folder structures in tact so it behaves exactly like the original DVD.
link -> https://www.macdvdripperpro.com

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