Promised Programmes that were never made

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Paul Hayes
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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Paul Hayes »

George White wrote:Rose Tyler - Earth Defence
I don't think you could describe this as "promised". We only ever found out it had even been thought about after the idea had been abandoned.

Baron Bill
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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Baron Bill »

[quote="George White"]
Other ATV backed film series I've seen reference to were "The Amazing Dr Thorndyke", "International Hospital", "Hongkong Harbour" (aka "Catch Dragon-Fly"), "Fleet Street" , "King, Queen and Knave" (with Robert Morley), "London Bureau", "Whitehall SW1" ... and there were a few proposed Hammer TV series as well, and a Conan Doyle series to be made by Sapphire Films in 1960. And there was the Dalek TV series that came within weeks of production in late 1966 which we covered in detail in "DWM".

That's a few odds and ends ... there'd be plenty to research in trade magazines for anyone with the time and resources ...

All the best

Andrew"

With regard to proposed ATV series, although there was never a film series called "Fleet Street", ATV made two videotaped series set in Fleet Street, namely "Deadline Midnight"and "Front Page Story".
They also made a series, in which Robert Morley played a king in a small European country, called "If The Crown Fits" which also featured Tracy Reed as his daughter.
My sole remembrance of this series is two lines, which they exchanged while travelling through the streets in a royal coach, which went something like this:
Robert: Look at those nice people waving.
Tracy: Actually, I think they're trying to hitch a lift.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Baron Bill »

Nick Cooper 625 wrote:An obvious one is Dan Dare. James Fox cast, model work begun, then ATV lost their franchise...

ATV did not lose their franchise. The IBA awarded the contract to ATV Midlands Limited subject to certain conditions. One of these being that the company name was changed and that 49% of the shares in the company were sold by ACC (parent company of ATV) to create a wider ownership of the company.

The company had a different name. It was not to most intents and purposes a different company. The executives running the company were the same people. As to the share ownership, as I recall the 49% went mostly to Ladbrokes the betting shop owners and that fine upstanding citizen Robert Maxwell.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Brock »

Baron Bill wrote: ATV did not lose their franchise. The IBA awarded the contract to ATV Midlands Limited subject to certain conditions. One of these being that the company name was changed and that 49% of the shares in the company were sold by ACC (parent company of ATV) to create a wider ownership of the company.
And they also had to close down their Elstree studios and set up studios in the East Midlands.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by markboulton »

Baron Bill wrote:
Nick Cooper 625 wrote:An obvious one is Dan Dare. James Fox cast, model work begun, then ATV lost their franchise...

ATV did not lose their franchise. The IBA awarded the contract to ATV Midlands Limited subject to certain conditions. One of these being that the company name was changed and that 49% of the shares in the company were sold by ACC (parent company of ATV) to create a wider ownership of the company.

The company had a different name. It was not to most intents and purposes a different company. The executives running the company were the same people. As to the share ownership, as I recall the 49% went mostly to Ladbrokes the betting shop owners and that fine upstanding citizen Robert Maxwell.
Hmmm.... if it's pendantry we're after, ATV did in the end lose their franchise because although the people running ATV Midlands Limited were accepted to be the people running the new franchise, an entirely new company had to be set up. Central Independent Television plc was a brand new company, not a rebrand of ATV Midlands Limited even though of course ACC was a shareholder in both.

The reason this is relevant is that agreements had to be drawn up as to which productions and formats got transferred to the new company and which didn't (i.e. reverted to ITC). It could well be that any number of planned productions remained ITC's intellectual property and thus never produced by Central (perhaps with a view to producing the shows in the US in the future, perhaps). Of course, all shows that were known to be best kept as UK-based, ITV-shown network fare were transferred to Central as we all know, but that wouldn't have been automatic. Agreements would have to have been put in place.

However, I actually posted on this thread just to say that I'm glad I found an answer to a question that has been puzzling me for a couple of weeks. I was checking the contents of a few unlabelled DVD-Rs that had lain unchecked (and mostly unfinalized) on a spindle lurking under a pile of other stuff, and on one of them I found the abovementioned Graham Norton Generation Game. I was watching in confounded fascination because I certainly don't ever remember (a) watching it at the time, or (b) intending to record it. I don't know how it got there. Perhaps it was an erroneous timer recording, I don't know. But I don't think I'd ever watched that disc back. It was a strange format - the set was rather Eurotrash-like, the games themselves not too bad, Graham winced his way uncomfortably through the whole thing, particularly - best bit - during Johnny Vegas' potter's wheel routine. The direction seemed rather sloppy though and the girl on the scores would only ever change the numbers AFTER announcing the score and the camera cut away from her. To find out it was actually a pilot and that it never ran to a series, makes a lot of sense!

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Baron Bill »

[quote="markboulton"]
Hmmm.... if it's pendantry we're after, ATV did in the end lose their franchise because although the people running ATV Midlands Limited were accepted to be the people running the new franchise, an entirely new company had to be set up. Central Independent Television plc was a brand new company, not a rebrand of ATV Midlands Limited even though of course ACC was a shareholder in both.


If you check at Companies House, you will find that company no. 01490357 was incorporated on 14th April 1980 as ATV Midlands Limited to apply for the Midlands franchise from 1st January, 1982. Its name was then officially changed on 31st December 1981 to Central Independent Television plc.
The company has now changed its name again to ITV Central Limited.

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Scary
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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Scary »

Baron Bill wrote:If you check at Companies House, you will find that company no. 01490357 was incorporated on 14th April 1980 as ATV Midlands Limited to apply for the Midlands franchise from 1st January, 1982. Its name was then officially changed on 31st December 1981 to Central Independent Television plc.
Am I right in remembering that the 'Independent' in their name was because someone else had the foresight to register 'Central Television' in an early cyber squatting style attempt?

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Scary
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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Scary »

There are a few TV channels I remember being promised and never materialising. Nick at Night and a Warner Bros channel being two which were included in Sky Multichannel publicity for a while. There was CBN too, an early Freeview channel that got as far as broadcasting a logo caption then disappeared

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by GarethR »

Scary wrote:There are a few TV channels I remember being promised and never materialising. Nick at Night and a Warner Bros channel being two which were included in Sky Multichannel publicity for a while
If I remember rightly, the WB channel was staffed and ready to go for some time before the plug was pulled (due to politics between Warner and Fox/Sky, IIRC). Stories did the rounds of the staff spending all day playing Doom and Command & Conquer on the office network because there was nothing else to do.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Brock »

Baron Bill wrote:
markboulton wrote: Hmmm.... if it's pendantry we're after,
Why are the words "pedant" and "pedantry" so often misspelt on this forum? Is it a deliberate joke?
ATV did in the end lose their franchise because although the people running ATV Midlands Limited were accepted to be the people running the new franchise, an entirely new company had to be set up. Central Independent Television plc was a brand new company, not a rebrand of ATV Midlands Limited even though of course ACC was a shareholder in both.
If you check at Companies House, you will find that company no. 01490357 was incorporated on 14th April 1980 as ATV Midlands Limited to apply for the Midlands franchise from 1st January, 1982. Its name was then officially changed on 31st December 1981 to Central Independent Television plc.
The company has now changed its name again to ITV Central Limited.
My understanding is that the company that held the Midlands franchise until 1981 was called "ATV Network Limited", and "ATV Midlands Limited" was a shell company created by ACC for the franchise process, which subsequently changed its name as you say. ATV Network Limited ceased broadcasting at the beginning of 1982.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by markboulton »

Brock wrote:
Baron Bill wrote:
markboulton wrote: Hmmm.... if it's pendantry we're after,
Why are the words "pedant" and "pedantry" so often misspelt on this forum? Is it a deliberate joke?
My understanding is that the company that held the Midlands franchise until 1981 was called "ATV Network Limited", and "ATV Midlands Limited" was a shell company created by ACC for the franchise process, which subsequently changed its name as you say. ATV Network Limited ceased broadcasting at the beginning of 1982.
Whoops... damn autocorrect again... I typed the post on my phone. Never a good idea. It always changes 'ident' to 'indent' too.

I take the point about ATV Midlands>Central etc. plc --- however I still believe the transfer of properties from ATV (read, ATV Network Ltd.) to Central was the matter of much debate as to what would, and wouldn't, make the transition, so one company wouldn't necessary and automatically have the rights to produce what the other had started. And of course, it was ATV Network Ltd. that 'lost' the franchise (legally I mean - i.e. ceased to be the company holding it - not in practical terms, being of course the same people operationally).

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Baron Bill »

Brock wrote:
My understanding is that the company that held the Midlands franchise until 1981 was called "ATV Network Limited", and "ATV Midlands Limited" was a shell company created by ACC for the franchise process, which subsequently changed its name as you say. ATV Network Limited ceased broadcasting at the beginning of 1982.
The Midlands weekday contractor was originally known as Associated TeleVision Limited. In the mid-sixties, at the behest of the ITA, in order to separate ATV's by then many other interests from the TV operation, a new company ATV Network Limited was created and it took over responsibility for the Midlands franchise and ATV's weekend franchise in London. As you say, when the new Midlands franchise conditions from 1982 were announced, ACC formed a new company - ATV Midlands Limited.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Baron Bill »

Scary wrote:
Am I right in remembering that the 'Independent' in their name was because someone else had the foresight to register 'Central Television' in an early cyber squatting style attempt?
That's the way I remember it, although everybody ignored the Independent bit and just called them Central Television as in "I'm Roger Cook from Central Television".

I also remember in the sixties, Southern Television decided to start calling themselves Southern Independent Television, but since nobody else did, they dropped it.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by SgtPepper »

When Brookside finished they were going to continue following some characters via DVD releases but they never did it. They even got as far as filming a trailer for a story where Barry Grant went after Damon's killers but it never got any further.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Nick Cooper 625 »

Baron Bill wrote:
Nick Cooper 625 wrote:An obvious one is Dan Dare. James Fox cast, model work begun, then ATV lost their franchise...
ATV did not lose their franchise.
Yeah, whatever. It was lost in the demise of ATV as it had been previously, regardless.
"Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo." [Wells]

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Billy »

After Tomorrow's World was axed the BBC assured everyone that future programmes under the 'Tomorrow's World brand' would continue to appear. I don't think any were made.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Richard F »

Operation S.W.O.R.D - a Gerry Anderson series concept that got far enough advanced to have an Annual produced. Possibly the original successor to Captain Scarlet before Lew Grade diverted him onto Joe 90?

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Duncan »

SgtPepper wrote:When Brookside finished they were going to continue following some characters via DVD releases but they never did it. They even got as far as filming a trailer for a story where Barry Grant went after Damon's killers but it never got any further.
Really? Given that Damon was killed in 1988 or thereabouts and Brookside went on for ages after that - would they really have sought to reheat such an old storyline? Are you confusing this with the "Brookside Bubble" offshoots - of which Damon and Debbie was one and Tracy Corkhill (IIRC) meeting Morrissey? was another.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Clive »

I remember when Simon Groom left Blue Peter he told us all 'not to worry' as he would soon be back presenting various features from his farm. I don't believe this ever happened. In fact he seemed to disappear completely from our screens, except for producing a couple of things.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Duncan »

I think he did a few reports - billed as BPs "Countryside Correspondent"

Simon would be ideal doing this on countryfile - he was such an enthusiastic broadcaster

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Shaqui »

Richard F wrote:Operation S.W.O.R.D - a Gerry Anderson series concept that got far enough advanced to have an Annual produced. Possibly the original successor to Captain Scarlet before Lew Grade diverted him onto Joe 90?
Project SWORD was never a serious consideration as a TV series. It was simply a marketing umbrella for a range of Century 21 toys. As far as I know, Gerry Anderson had no involvement in its genesis, which would have broken the trend that he and Sylvia Anderson created all their shows.

And also, which SWORD format are you referring to? The original really poor one that appeared in Solo comic before Captain Scarlet aired (and well after production of the series had started):

http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.c ... WORD01.htm

- or the latter series of text stories that were in TV21 during 1968-69, and from which the format for the mentioned annual derives? As far as I know, Angus Allan was responsible for both of these...

http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.c ... WORD02.htm and http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.c ... Annual.htm

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Shaqui »

Simon Coward wrote:Wasn't Brian Clemens going to do something called The Good Guys at some point in the 1980s - or did that eventually morph into Dempsey and Makepeace?
I recall being shown by Paul Mark Tams back in the 1980s a World Distributors annual promotion brochure which mentioned The Good Guys. There was no cover image available, but the outline teaser was clearly Dempsey and Makepeace.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Scary »

Duncan wrote:I think he did a few reports - billed as BPs "Countryside Correspondent"
Not many though, it did seem like one of those 'non-jobs' that people get moved to when you want to get rid of them without being able to get rid of them.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Ross »

Yes, what happened with Simon Groom? Did he fall or was he pushed?

I was still a viewer then and the countryside correspondent thing seemed odd.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Simon Coward »

Clive wrote:I remember when Simon Groom left Blue Peter he told us all 'not to worry' as he would soon be back presenting various features from his farm. I don't believe this ever happened. In fact he seemed to disappear completely from our screens, except for producing a couple of things.
Simon left the main presenting team at the end of the 1985/1986 series, but during the following season he made half-a-dozen films, not necessarily at his farm, for the programme as Blue Peter's "Countryside Correspondent". These films were:

22/09/1986 Harvesting and Shire Horses
06/10/1986 Bat Watch
13/10/1986 Rags' pony trek in Wales
20/10/1986 The Cropthorne Camera of Minnie Holland
03/11/1986 Masham Sheep Fair
13/04/1987 Dethick Lambing
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Clive
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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Clive »

Thanks for clarifying that ! I must have missed those, I do remember being a little miffed that he never seemed to appear again as he did seem a competent presenter. A Matt Baker of the 80's perhaps...

Those titles do sound like episodes of Jack Hargreaves 'Out of Town' though...

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by SgtPepper »

Duncan wrote:
SgtPepper wrote:When Brookside finished they were going to continue following some characters via DVD releases but they never did it. They even got as far as filming a trailer for a story where Barry Grant went after Damon's killers but it never got any further.
Really? Given that Damon was killed in 1988 or thereabouts and Brookside went on for ages after that - would they really have sought to reheat such an old storyline? Are you confusing this with the "Brookside Bubble" offshoots - of which Damon and Debbie was one and Tracy Corkhill (IIRC) meeting Morrissey? was another.
No not confusing anything. It was called Settling Up. The trailer is on YouTube and Damon is even in it (in Barry's nightmares.)

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Steve Williams »

Ross wrote:Yes, what happened with Simon Groom? Did he fall or was he pushed?

I was still a viewer then and the countryside correspondent thing seemed odd.
They certainly weren't trying to get rid of Groom, and in fact looking at Biddy Baxter's book, it seems that they were actually trying to keep hold of Groom by giving him that role after his ostensible "departure" because they liked him and wanted to keep him around in some form, like how Val and Pete carried on doing the Special Assignments after they'd stopped presenting the show full time.

I guess it might also have been because when they last hired a male presenter it was Michael Sundin and he'd worked so badly they had to get Peter Duncan back, and with Duncan himself about to leave presumably the idea was that if they kept Groom on the books, they'd have at least something if their replacements turned out to be rubbish. In the end they worked out fine so maybe it petered out for that reason, it turned out not to be that vital to keep him on and maybe Groom himself decided to make a clean break.

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by Richard F »

Shaqui wrote:
Richard F wrote:Operation S.W.O.R.D - a Gerry Anderson series concept that got far enough advanced to have an Annual produced. Possibly the original successor to Captain Scarlet before Lew Grade diverted him onto Joe 90?
Project SWORD was never a serious consideration as a TV series. It was simply a marketing umbrella for a range of Century 21 toys. As far as I know, Gerry Anderson had no involvement in its genesis, which would have broken the trend that he and Sylvia Anderson created all their shows.

And also, which SWORD format are you referring to? The original really poor one that appeared in Solo comic before Captain Scarlet aired (and well after production of the series had started):

http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.c ... WORD01.htm

- or the latter series of text stories that were in TV21 during 1968-69, and from which the format for the mentioned annual derives? As far as I know, Angus Allan was responsible for both of these...

http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.c ... WORD02.htm and http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.c ... Annual.htm
My info was derived entirely from the Annual which I came across in a second-hand bookstall in the Eighties - I remember the basic concept seemed a natural progression from Scarlet, set further in the future and with mankind now battling for survival in a hostile universe. The marketing origin must be why I recall there were so many different machines, spacecraft etc. littered through the pages - I just assumed this must have been what the bland Joe 90 replaced and they were salvaging what they could from the project (I never actually bought the Annual!)

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Re: Promised Programmes that were never made

Post by manticore »

Tim Munro wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:Would it really have been different then before? No doubt Marian would've come back because of some reason or plot device?
Why was it cancelled, anyway, does anyone know?
Well Marian would have been back but not for the majority of episodes - the reason she was written out in "Time of the Wolf" is that Judi Trott had already told Richard Carpenter she didn't want to do the whole of series 4. The cancellation was down to Goldcrest pulling out of financing the series (in order to concentrate on film production - which worked out so well for them...) and HTV were unable to fund it on their own.
I seem to remember reading years ago(dwb bulletin?)that they were going to make a robin of sherwood movie in Europe somewhere,but the deal fell through,supposedly just as the cast were about to fly out for filming.i've never read of this anywhere else so I don't know what the truth is,if any.

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