ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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longtimelurker
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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by longtimelurker »

Thanks for the useful list, Simon. Just interested but did Public Eye series 6 ever get a repeat? I notice that series 5 and 7 had afternoon repeats (both of which I remember) so if series 6 was screened a second time, it must have been in the evening.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by John Williams »

Simon Coward wrote:At the risk of derailing Billy's thread even further... there have been a few posts along the line of "I remember such-and-such in the afternoons, was that a repeat?" so I thought perhaps a list of networked repeats might come in handy.
Fantastic post Simon - thanks for that. I saw a lot of drama series for the first time during their afternoon repeats. Usually during the school holidays when I was ferried to my grandma's house each day while my parents were at work. I'm glad to say some of those dates tally perfectly with my memories. Sam, Family at War, Moody and Pegg, and Hunters Walk are the ones that stand out. Bizarre to think that Bill Brand was repeated in the afternoon - that's taking Trevor Griffiths' concept of strategic penetration to the limit.

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Billy Smart
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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by Billy Smart »

That terrific list shows that ITV certainly didn't always choose their most obvious drama hits for the afternoon repeat slot! It seems to be quite fairly divided between ATV, Granada, Thames and Yorkshire programmes (LWT being excluded by deint of being a weekend broadcaster). Am I right in thinking that none of the other companies get a look-in? Although I can't think of many 50 minute series and serials that were made by the others in the 1970s.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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longtimelurker wrote:Thanks for the useful list, Simon. Just interested but did Public Eye series 6 ever get a repeat?
You're welcome - and not as far as I know.

The series 5 repeats started only a few weeks after series 6 had been shown, in 1973. As far as I can tell there were no episodes at all in 1974, just the first run of series 7 in early 1975 and then nothing more until the repeats of the same in 1977. And, as far as ITV was concerned, that was your lot I think, apart from a one-off broadcast of "Who Wants To Be Told Bad News?" as part of Thames' 21st anniversary celebrations in 1989.

The odd thing is that I was sure I could remember watching Public Eye in the mid-to-late-70s in the same post-News at Ten slot which Thames used for repeats of Special Branch and The Sweeney, but I can find no trace of it, so I guess I must been misremembering the afternoon repeats.
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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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Billy Smart wrote:That terrific list shows that ITV certainly didn't always choose their most obvious drama hits for the afternoon repeat slot! It seems to be quite fairly divided between ATV, Granada, Thames and Yorkshire programmes (LWT being excluded by deint of being a weekend broadcaster). Am I right in thinking that none of the other companies get a look-in? Although I can't think of many 50 minute series and serials that were made by the others in the 1970s.
You're quite right, it is just the weekday "Big Four" - I've just updated the list with all the company names. I will double-check (and post at some point) the few plays that were broadcast but I'm pretty sure it's the same there too.
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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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John Williams wrote:Fantastic post Simon - thanks for that. I saw a lot of drama series for the first time during their afternoon repeats. Usually during the school holidays when I was ferried to my grandma's house each day while my parents were at work. I'm glad to say some of those dates tally perfectly with my memories. Sam, Family at War, Moody and Pegg, and Hunters Walk are the ones that stand out. Bizarre to think that Bill Brand was repeated in the afternoon - that's taking Trevor Griffiths' concept of strategic penetration to the limit.
Thanks, John. I most certainly benefited from some of those repeats - in some cases because I was a couple of years older than I'd been when the series was on originally and I was able to appreciate it more.

I also thought Bill Brand was an unusual choice, I hadn't remembered its repeat at all, but it would have coincided exactly with going back to school and would have been over before the Christmas holidays - not that many of these kinds of repeats occurred during Christmas week. Against the Crowd was another where I'd have bet money on the fact that the plays had never been repeated, never mind in the afternoons. On the other hand I was both surprised and delighted to see that there had been a few repeats from The Misfit - that's still one of my "most wanted" which Network haven't released.

I'm not sure if there are any others in the same boat, but I note that the majority of the repeated Hunters Walk episodes no longer survive.
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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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Simon Coward wrote:
longtimelurker wrote:Thanks for the useful list, Simon. Just interested but did Public Eye series 6 ever get a repeat?
You're welcome - and not as far as I know.

The odd thing is that I was sure I could remember watching Public Eye in the mid-to-late-70s in the same post-News at Ten slot which Thames used for repeats of Special Branch and The Sweeney, but I can find no trace of it, so I guess I must been misremembering the afternoon repeats.
I can only personally recall afternoon weekday repeats of Public Eye myself (and none in the evenings). The lack of repeats for series 6 probably explains why I had stronger memories of series 5 and 7 though! Was series 4 (the Brighton run) ever repeated, by the way (at any time of day or night)? I don't recall it being. The very early '70s would have been the most likely time for it to be, while most people still had b/w sets.

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Billy Smart
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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by Billy Smart »

Simon Coward wrote: I'm not sure if there are any others in the same boat, but I note that the majority of the repeated Hunters Walk episodes no longer survive.
I think that a handful of the Love Storys are the only other episodes on the list that are currently not known to survive.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by Left Field »

longtimelurker wrote: Was series 4 (the Brighton run) ever repeated, by the way (at any time of day or night)? I don't recall it being. The very early '70s would have been the most likely time for it to be, while most people still had b/w sets.
There wasn't a repeat for Series 4. I get the impression - but might be wrong - that the various series that were repeated in the afternoons were those produced in the 1970s and earlier ones weren't chosen.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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Left Field wrote:
longtimelurker wrote: Was series 4 (the Brighton run) ever repeated, by the way (at any time of day or night)? I don't recall it being. The very early '70s would have been the most likely time for it to be, while most people still had b/w sets.
There wasn't a repeat for Series 4. I get the impression - but might be wrong - that the various series that were repeated in the afternoons were those produced in the 1970s and earlier ones weren't chosen.
The one exception are the three productions from Happy Ever After which were originally shown in 1969. They were in colour, though, and it may have been a lack of colour rather than specifically their age which did for a lot of late 1960s output - though there doesn't seem to have been a problem with the repeating of episodes from series such as Hine and The Mind of Mr. J. G. Reeder which were hit by the colour strike.

Aside from the Happy Ever Afters, the only other episodes to be more than three years old when they were repeated were those from the first series of Sam which had originally been shown between June and September 1973.

Apart from the in-week repeats, the quickest re-run was for The Bass Player and The Blonde, the episodes of which were repeated just 79 days after the initial broadcast. Nothing else was re-run in less than six months though the gap between the original airings and the repeats of Zodiac and the second series of each of Moody and Pegg, Village Hall and Van der Valk was less than a year.
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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by Focus II »

I can remember Southern TV's "Together" being transmitted live with the announcement, "Coming live from the studios of Southern Television" at the start over the still Southern caption.

Excellent thread!

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by longtimelurker »

Simon Coward wrote:
Left Field wrote: The one exception are the three productions from Happy Ever After which were originally shown in 1969. They were in colour, though, and it may have been a lack of colour rather than specifically their age which did for a lot of late 1960s output - though there doesn't seem to have been a problem with the repeating of episodes from series such as Hine and The Mind of Mr. J. G. Reeder which were hit by the colour strike.
Remind me what Happy Ever After was. I probably saw it but can't think of what it was or who was in it.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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longtimelurker wrote:
Simon Coward wrote: The one exception are the three productions from Happy Ever After which were originally shown in 1969. They were in colour, though, and it may have been a lack of colour rather than specifically their age which did for a lot of late 1960s output - though there doesn't seem to have been a problem with the repeating of episodes from series such as Hine and The Mind of Mr. J. G. Reeder which were hit by the colour strike.
Remind me what Happy Ever After was. I probably saw it but can't think of what it was or who was in it.
It was just a series of plays. 15 in total, 9 at the tail end of 1969 and just creeping into the following January, another six in November and December 1970. All with one thing in common: a happy ending. Made by ATV in studios A & B (1969) or studio C (1970) at Elstree.

Writers included Donald Churchill, Fay Weldon, Robert Holmes, Luanshya Greer and Ray Jenkins. John Nelson Burton, Robert Tronson and Paul Bernard each directed multiple segments.

Decent set of actors starred including John Thaw, Judy Geeson, Peter Bowles (twice), Ann Bell, Ann Lynn, Norman Bird, Margery Mason, Alfred Marks, Kika Markham (twice), Corin Redgrave etc.
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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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'Happy Ever After' is misnamed in terms of survival-rate: http://www.lostshows.com/default.aspx?p ... 5990b221b5

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by John Williams »

Simon36 wrote:There were also the STV soaps. High Life was one, can never remember the name of the other but fairly sure they were both broadcast in daytime.

Must just mention, probably not for the first time, that COUPLES is absolutely fantastic.
I've still not seen an episode of this, unless I happened to watch one when I was a kid. Tony Parker was an admirable man, and in terms of quantity, he wrote more of Couples than anything else. A box set of this would be one of my remaining dream releases. There were some excellent directors involved as well.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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Absolutely. It also had the brilliant PJ Hammond writing for it. The casts were astounding. Sheila Hancock, David Swift, Julian Glover, George Sweeney, Marjorie Yates...

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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Billy Smart wrote:Thames come out of this list very well, I think, though making a cycle of interesting series was probably more inpractical than the other companies strategy of concentrating on creating one self-sustaining format (in General Hospital, Emmerdale Farm and Crown Court).
As Simon C says, this is an interesting point. I've always assumed that Thames made a number of different series because each one wasn't very successful, although what "successful" actually meant at the time, in such an experimental new timeslot, is something to ponder. Do we know if there's any evidence that Thames planned to have a year of Harriet's Back in Town, and then start something new? Or did Harriet just run out of steam?

This thread reminds me that when I was writing for Screenonline, I pitched the idea of doing a series of articles about daytime drama, but in the end the editor decided it was a bit too niche, and it morphed into a more general piece about soap opera. I thought it was a missed opportunity, not least on a personal level because it meant I didn't get my hands on lots of the programmes under discussion here! Fortunately, Network's release of Soap Box helped to ease the pain.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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That was indeed a missed opportunity John. I haven't got the Soap Box but this has reminded me it's time I did. If only for that fantastic theme tune to Marked Personal

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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Simon36 wrote:That was indeed a missed opportunity John. I haven't got the Soap Box but this has reminded me it's time I did. If only for that fantastic theme tune to Marked Personal
You can pick it up for about £17 nowadays. Well worth it. For Maddie with Love is particularly fascinating - minimalist sets with black drapes, and a narrative driven by terminal cancer. The novelization is even odder.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by Simon36 »

Yes I have vague memories of that one from its transmission. In my memory it preceeded Houseparty, which I'm sure it didn't in reality. If it did, it was certainly a challenge for the announcer.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by TonyCurrie »

Yes, Maddy was scheduled just before Houseparty, but no mood change was required of the announcer because once you'd had 3' 40" of commercials, the mood was utterly lost anyway!!!

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by VintageFan »

Billy Smart wrote:
Interesting that Thames drop out altogether after your 1976-7 season. That seems a bit unlikely, and yet I can't yet come up with anything you're missing in that regard.
The Kaleidoscope ITV Drama Guide is helpful in this regard -
A further series of 126 episodes [of Rooms was scheduled to go into production in October 1977. With the plan being to make three episodes per week, Thames found that it had insufficient studio capacity and rented a studio at Elstree for the duration of the production. A disagreement with the unions then ensued as to whether Elstree was considered a location or a base – the difference being the overtime payments for travelling to a location. So production of all daytime drama was put on hold.
Seven writers (Gilly Fraser, Cherry Potter, Alan Janes, Stephen Fagan, Shane Connaughton, Paula Milne and Alan Richards) had apparently been contracted to write six episodes each with at least two more (John Bowen and Fay Weldon) having reached an agreement, albeit without being under contract at the time of the series' cancellation. In addition, the principal actors from the previous series had also been re-engaged.


The history of British Television drama in the 1970s is often a history of strikes! This comes soon after a similar dispute at Thames over the 1977 Euston Films series of Van Der Valk, which required different working practices to the two earlier studio series.

I don't think Thames tried their hand at daytime drama again until Gems in 1985. Which was perhaps not a work of equivalent quality to the 1972-77 cycle of series.
I'd never realised that there had been plans for more Rooms. It was a very strong series- both in it's original incarnation and it's reinvention as a serial in 1977. The golden age of daytime drama was indeed 1972-77. With the end of Rooms and the promotion of Emmerdale Farm and The Cedar Tree to later slots,Crown Court was the only really long running title left. Even that series had fewer new episodes every year until it's demise in 1984.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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Simon Coward wrote:
longtimelurker wrote:
Simon Coward wrote: The one exception are the three productions from Happy Ever After which were originally shown in 1969. They were in colour, though, and it may have been a lack of colour rather than specifically their age which did for a lot of late 1960s output - though there doesn't seem to have been a problem with the repeating of episodes from series such as Hine and The Mind of Mr. J. G. Reeder which were hit by the colour strike.
Remind me what Happy Ever After was. I probably saw it but can't think of what it was or who was in it.
It was just a series of plays. 15 in total, 9 at the tail end of 1969 and just creeping into the following January, another six in November and December 1970. All with one thing in common: a happy ending. Made by ATV in studios A & B (1969) or studio C (1970) at Elstree.
According to ATV's annual report for the year ended March 1971, the second series of Happy Ever After transmitted in 1970 was produced in Birmingham. Looking through the four issues of TV Times I have covering November 1970 seems to confirm this, as I notice that only one of the plays has an Elstree based designer credited - Henry Graveney. The other three have Birmingham designers - Norman Smith, Don Davidson and Jill Oxley. While one can envisage an Elstree designer being seconded to Birmingham. one cannot imagine three Birmingham designers being sent down to Elstree.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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Baron Bill wrote:
Simon Coward wrote:It was just a series of plays. 15 in total, 9 at the tail end of 1969 and just creeping into the following January, another six in November and December 1970. All with one thing in common: a happy ending. Made by ATV in studios A & B (1969) or studio C (1970) at Elstree.
According to ATV's annual report for the year ended March 1971, the second series of Happy Ever After transmitted in 1970 was produced in Birmingham. Looking through the four issues of TV Times I have covering November 1970 seems to confirm this, as I notice that only one of the plays has an Elstree based designer credited - Henry Graveney. The other three have Birmingham designers - Norman Smith, Don Davidson and Jill Oxley. While one can envisage an Elstree designer being seconded to Birmingham. one cannot imagine three Birmingham designers being sent down to Elstree.
Serves me right for skimming, doesn't it? Yes, it looks like four were made in Birmingham and two at Elstree. The Elstree two:

"Come Back a Stranger", production #2319, Elstree Studio C, directed by Paul Bernard, designed by Trevor Paterson (rx 02/09/1970, tx 07/11/1970)
"The Marriage Vow", production #2186, Elstree Studio C, directed by John Nelson Burton, designed by Henry Graveney (rx 29/09/1970, tx 21/11/1970)

Edit: Jill Oxley was very familiar with the Elstree studios though, and was working there as late as 1969 (Honey Lane) so it wouldn't be too ridiculous if she'd been brought down from Brum as emergency/holiday cover.
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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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Simon Coward wrote:
Baron Bill wrote:
Simon Coward wrote:It was just a series of plays. 15 in total, 9 at the tail end of 1969 and just creeping into the following January, another six in November and December 1970. All with one thing in common: a happy ending. Made by ATV in studios A & B (1969) or studio C (1970) at Elstree.
According to ATV's annual report for the year ended March 1971, the second series of Happy Ever After transmitted in 1970 was produced in Birmingham. Looking through the four issues of TV Times I have covering November 1970 seems to confirm this, as I notice that only one of the plays has an Elstree based designer credited - Henry Graveney. The other three have Birmingham designers - Norman Smith, Don Davidson and Jill Oxley. While one can envisage an Elstree designer being seconded to Birmingham. one cannot imagine three Birmingham designers being sent down to Elstree.
Serves me right for skimming, doesn't it? Yes, it looks like four were made in Birmingham and two at Elstree. The Elstree two:

"Come Back a Stranger", production #2319, Elstree Studio C, directed by Paul Bernard, designed by Trevor Paterson (rx 02/09/1970, tx 07/11/1970)
"The Marriage Vow", production #2186, Elstree Studio C, directed by John Nelson Burton, designed by Henry Graveney (rx 29/09/1970, tx 21/11/1970)

Edit: Jill Oxley was very familiar with the Elstree studios though, and was working there as late as 1969 (Honey Lane) so it wouldn't be too ridiculous if she'd been brought down from Brum as emergency/holiday cover.
Simon, thank you for claryfying that so precisely. I presume because of your involvement with Kaleidoscope, you have access to Richard Greenough's files. Is there any intention of making the information in these more widely available? I am sure there would be many members of TMC who would gladly buy PDF copies of these if they were available.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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Baron Bill wrote:I presume because of your involvement with Kaleidoscope, you have access to Richard Greenough's files. Is there any intention of making the information in these more widely available? I am sure there would be many members of TMC who would gladly buy PDF copies of these if they were available.
The answer's "Yes" to both of those questions. I can't offer up any specific timescale for the latter "Yes", but we are quite seriously investigating a variety of different ideas in relation to making various parts of the Kaleidoscope archive rather more readily available than has been the case so far.
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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by longtimelurker »

Pardon my ignorance but what are Richard Greenough's files?

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

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longtimelurker wrote:Pardon my ignorance but what are Richard Greenough's files?
Richard Greenough (who was sometimes credited as Richard R. Greenough) trained as an architect but he spent a short time post-war as an actor in the theatre. However, the result of his training was that he became more and more involved with the design of scenery, and he joined BBC Television as a designer when the service re-started after the Second World War. He may have worked on more prestigious productions, but I imagine most people here will have seen his name on the end credits of "Contact Has Been Established", the opening episode of The Quatermass Experiment (he worked on alternate episodes of that series with Stewart Marshall taking the others).

In 1955 he joined ATV as Head of Design at their Elstree studios, becoming ATV's Head of Visual Services in 1965. His retirement coincided with ATV's cessation of production at Elstree in July 1983.

Aside from a few weeks which have gone astray, Richard preserved all the ATV "Design Schedules" or "Designers Allocations" - these were documents listing what productions were in what studio when, under which producer and/or director, and which designer was allocated to them. Later, from late 1965 onwards, they would also list who from the lighting, wardrobe and make-up departments were allocated too. For just over a year the schedules also list what was going on in the Birmingham studios but this ceases in the summer of 1957*.

In addition to these, a handful of design plans/drawings survive some of which, curiously, relate to Granada productions and which aren't, so far as we can tell, productions on which he was credited. His collection also included a small number of ATV Year Books (a kind of annual report) and a few commercially available publications including the TVTimes specials for ATV's Clayhanger and LWT's Upstairs Downstairs. Aside from the design plans and drawings which were too large and were separately either rolled up, or folded and placed inside a large envelope, everything fitted in a modestly-sized cardboard box: we haven't got mountains of his stuff here.

I understand that he had also kept paperwork relating to his time at the BBC and I believe this is being held by the Alexandra Palace Television Society.
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* Edit: For clarity, although Richard's position as Head of Design doesn't seem to have extended to scheduling those in Birmingham (aside from the period I mentioned above), his schedules do include London-based productions - e.g. those at the London Palladium and the Prince of Wales, those at the Wood Green and the Hackney Empires, those from the Foley Street transmission centre and those at Highbury and Viking Studios. And no doubt some at other locations I can't presently bring to mind.
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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by longtimelurker »

Thanks Simon. What a fascinating and important archive he left us.

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Re: ITV Daytime Drama Series 1972-82

Post by Mark »

Richard Greenough was an exceptionally nice chap, he very kindly gave me all the info and recording dates for "Timeslip", from his files, and I posted it in a thread, on the old site a few years ago.
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