Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Spiny Norman »

The DVD of Goodbye Again contains almost 2 hours of sketches of which only the location stuff is colour (and very good colour at that, 35mm film).
The material from the rest of the 4 episodes does not appear in their original cuts and is all in b/w. Including one Scarlett Pimpernell medical checkup sketch. But I once got a clip where the same is in colour:

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Where could this be from?
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Spiny Norman wrote:The DVD of Goodbye Again contains almost 2 hours of sketches of which only the location stuff is colour (and very good colour at that, 35mm film).
The material from the rest of the 4 episodes does not appear in their original cuts and is all in b/w. Including one Scarlett Pimpernell medical checkup sketch. But I once got a clip where the same is in colour:

Image

Where could this be from?
Alright, I'll answer me own question then!

The colour clip seen in "Closed circuit / the Elstree Story" (1981) comes from the US cuts. They had two sets of cameras in the studio, so each side of the atlantic had a different angle. In 1981 they had colour footage for NTSC available but no evidence that the UK editions still existed in colour.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

Don't think I saw the original post for some reason, and I don't think I have seen that 1981 Documentary either.

The four editions were shown as two one hour editions in the US in 1969, they included US hosts.

Sounds like they may still exist then.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Mark wrote:The four editions were shown as two one hour editions in the US in 1969, they included US hosts.
Wouldn't they have been 4 programmes there as well, only in a different order, differently linked, and slightly shorter? On ATVaudio I see evidence for at least 3 editions.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Spiny Norman wrote:
Mark wrote:The four editions were shown as two one hour editions in the US in 1969, they included US hosts.
Wouldn't they have been 4 programmes there as well, only in a different order, differently linked, and slightly shorter? On ATVaudio I see evidence for at least 3 editions.
Found this list which seems to confirm two 1 hour editions as part of the "Kraft Music Hall Presents" series , scroll down to April/May 69.

Kraft Music Hall Presents
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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The 4th edition shown in the UK in Aug 69 appears to be a new show and therefore (in that case) would not have been a held over edition from the 68 recording batch.
The reason being was that Cooke and Moore did not get on with the producer Shaun O'Riodan on the 68 editions and it looks like a completely new production team was used on the 69 edition..including US producer Dwight Hemion who stayed with ATV for several years working on their 'mid-Atlantic' soufflé shows.
The ITV network didn't seem that impressed as it appeared to be shunted around in late-night slots and so presumably Kraft didn't buy that one either?..despite having the presence of hot at the time, serious actress Ann Bancroft, sending herself up and having fun with Pete and Dud as a distressed Mum IIRC.

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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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That fourth one was recorded June 69, so I guess the two Kraft shows were material from the batch of three 68 editions combined with US material to make up the two 1 hour editions, probably American John Davidson made up some of it.

Either that or they just bought the first two shows only and showed them!
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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They also had Ike & Tina Turner.
Mark wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:
Mark wrote:The four editions were shown as two one hour editions in the US in 1969, they included US hosts.
Wouldn't they have been 4 programmes there as well, only in a different order, differently linked, and slightly shorter? On ATVaudio I see evidence for at least 3 editions.
Found this list which seems to confirm two 1 hour editions as part of the "Kraft Music Hall Presents" series , scroll down to April/May 69.

Kraft Music Hall Presents
Strange, the otherwise reliable http://ctva.biz/ doesn't seem to deliver.

But I can now no longer find the reference I thought I had. So 2 US programs it seems to be.


But based on partial sources I am still certain that Kraft combined sketches from different UK episodes in a new order. And they especially recorded some bits for the US, so this was planned (unless two episodes were made but not used).


I get the impression that they were leaning towards connecting the material. Not quite a stream of consciousness, but starting each new item on the set of the last. For example by announcing it in character or by walking through a door to the next set.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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What was the clip on the Elstree doc, was it part of a sketch?

Can't find much else on line, but there are a couple of photos on images, the backs of them are included with another mention of the two NBC "Kraft" editions, one features Pete and Dud on location for the "World News Spectorama" sketch in show 2.

The two shows may well be compilations of material from the three 68 editions, but that seems to be it, no mention of any other broadcasts.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Mark wrote:What was the clip on the Elstree doc, was it part of a sketch?
The studio part of the Scarlet Pimpernel sketch, which on the (only) DVD is in b/w (and a different camera angle).
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Interesting, the "Pimpernel" sketch is from UK show 1 and the "Spectorama" sketch is from UK show 2.

Wild speculation, but it might be that the US only colour recorded the first two shows, and didn't bother with the third one at all.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Mark wrote:Interesting, the "Pimpernel" sketch is from UK show 1 and the "Spectorama" sketch is from UK show 2.

Wild speculation, but it might be that the US only colour recorded the first two shows, and didn't bother with the third one at all.
But I thought that the Pimpernel was from #3? As far as I know, the Kraft versions took bits from all three 1968 episodes - there seem to be at least audio recordings, from ATVaudio.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Spiny Norman wrote:But I thought that the Pimpernel was from #3? As far as I know, the Kraft versions took bits from all three 1968 episodes - there seem to be at least audio recordings, from ATVaudio.
The Kraft showed them in 69 so it probably follows that in all 3 shows there were sketches that would not have worked for Kraft but they were left with enough for 2 shows. For example War Correspondent might have worked for Kraft but Mrs Wooley's curse was not the sort of sketch they were use to ie. this harked back to the NOBA days which I believe was confined to the domestic/commonwealth markets.

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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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fatcat wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:But I thought that the Pimpernel was from #3? As far as I know, the Kraft versions took bits from all three 1968 episodes - there seem to be at least audio recordings, from ATVaudio.
The Kraft showed them in 69 so it probably follows that in all 3 shows there were sketches that would not have worked for Kraft but they were left with enough for 2 shows. For example War Correspondent might have worked for Kraft but Mrs Wooley's curse was not the sort of sketch they were use to ie. this harked back to the NOBA days which I believe was confined to the domestic/commonwealth markets.
From the limited information, it doesn't look like they used any "Dagenham dialogues" either.
But there were specially recorded introductions and sometimes even a different continuation for the US shows.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Spiny Norman wrote:
Mark wrote:Interesting, the "Pimpernel" sketch is from UK show 1 and the "Spectorama" sketch is from UK show 2.

Wild speculation, but it might be that the US only colour recorded the first two shows, and didn't bother with the third one at all.
But I thought that the Pimpernel was from #3? As far as I know, the Kraft versions took bits from all three 1968 episodes - there seem to be at least audio recordings, from ATVaudio.
No, "Pimpernel was definitely show 1, the complete show 3 is on YT.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Mark wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:
Mark wrote:Interesting, the "Pimpernel" sketch is from UK show 1 and the "Spectorama" sketch is from UK show 2.

Wild speculation, but it might be that the US only colour recorded the first two shows, and didn't bother with the third one at all.
But I thought that the Pimpernel was from #3? As far as I know, the Kraft versions took bits from all three 1968 episodes - there seem to be at least audio recordings, from ATVaudio.
No, "Pimpernel was definitely show 1, the complete show 3 is on YT.
Yes, but who says that the one copy that is out there is correctly numbered?
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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The KAL guide has it listed as show 3, with John Cleese, Rodney Bewes et al, shown 14/9/68 (By the way, show 4 was recorded in Colour by ATV).

There is a list of sketches on each show on the Laughterlog site Here, scroll down to bottom of page.

Presumably the US would have known what material would be included in the 68 shows and would have decided whether to do all three or not, the only sketches included in US that we know about are from 1 and 2.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Mark wrote:The KAL guide has it listed as show 3, with John Cleese, Rodney Bewes et al, shown 14/9/68 (By the way, show 4 was recorded in Colour by ATV).

There is a list of sketches on each show on the Laughterlog site Here, scroll down to bottom of page.

Presumably the US would have known what material would be included in the 68 shows and would have decided whether to do all three or not, the only sketches included in US that we know about are from 1 and 2.
It's still just guessing. He hails from Australia, and they might not have shown them in the right order.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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The KAL guide has the Cleese and Bewes cast for show 3 and the laughterlog list does show the UK dates, so it's likely to be correct, if only we knew some more of the sketches shown in the US editions, we'd know if 3 was included.

The running time for the two US shows was about 42 minutes, with extra material and the ad breaks to take each up to the hour, so the jury is still out on a 3 show compilation or the first two only, it certainly makes sense it was the former, but who knows?

I should have realised show 4 would have been done in colour, as it was done in the summer of 69, transmitted in August, it would have been seen in B/W, which begs the question, was it repeated ? ( only exists as a B/W film recording) if it wasn't then it would never have been seen in the UK in colour!
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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There doesn't appear to have been a repeat, although with the Ingrid Bergman film, and it being a common phrase, it is difficult to search and say for sure. The second of the three original run (24/8) wasn't actually billed in the London Region TVTimes, which had the following:

18.45 Frost on Saturday
19.30 John Hanson Sings
20.30 The Best of Bogie To Have and Have Not
21.20 News
21.30 The Best of Bogie Part Two of Tonight's Film: To Have and Have Not
22.30 The Saturday Special Tony's in Town

The Daily Mirror (and many other papers) has:

18.45 Frost on Saturday
19.30 The Best of Bogie: Key Largo
21.20 News; weather
21.30 Goodbye Again (with Julie Driscoll)
22.30 The Saturday Special: Franchise Trail. Play by Nemone Lethbridge about the battle for the new ITV Contracts

A few reviews I skimmed whilst looking didn't seem that impressed with the comedy - rot and dead were words used - although the musical items were well received.

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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Interesting about the colour episode, that's a shame.

As for the newspaper billings, it seems it was messed about with considerably in the regions, either not shown or in a different order, so only the ATV region seems to have had it in the listed order on various guides, so that does make it more likely the two US ones were comps of all three shows.

It would certainly be interesting to know which sketches were used and considered suitable for use ( and what the chances are they kept the original three recordings?)
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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I wonder if they had a following in Europe after the Bedazzled movie?
Germany, Holland, and France had been transmitting in colour for some time and presumably, this was the intention for ATV's Pal only Benny Hill Show?

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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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A quick look through the Dutch newspaper archives doesn't come up with anything other than Cook and Moore films. I don't read Dutch, so that doesn't help.

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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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stearn wrote:A quick look through the Dutch newspaper archives doesn't come up with anything other than Cook and Moore films. I don't read Dutch, so that doesn't help.
At a guess, I'd say NOBA was much less international than other British comedy. I don't get the impression that NOBA/GA was exported outside the Commonwealth + USA that much. Kind of like The Goodies, it just never happened. (But for different reasons, probably.)

The Dutch national public television archive, which is openly accessible (and generally a country where British stuff goes down well), turns up absolutely nothing.

Maybe it's too subtle to survive translation/transplantation?
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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It looks quite likely then, that they only sold the B/W print of show 4, wonder how long the colour copy survived?

If you read Andrew P's thread about KAL's Colour TV event, amazingly they are showing the US Kraft show 2, it mentions John Cleese, so that seems to prove it, the two Kraft shows were comps of the UK shows 1-3.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Mark wrote:It looks quite likely then, that they only sold the B/W print of show 4, wonder how long the colour copy survived?

If you read Andrew P's thread about KAL's Colour TV event, amazingly they are showing the US Kraft show 2, it mentions John Cleese, so that seems to prove it, the two Kraft shows were comps of the UK shows 1-3.
John is in one episode, a lower quality b/w recording is "out there" as we speak.

The strange thing is, they make no use of him at all. He's practically a prop. It could have been anyone else without any difference.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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Mark wrote:As for the newspaper billings, it seems it was messed about with considerably in the regions, either not shown or in a different order, so only the ATV region seems to have had it in the listed order on various guides, so that does make it more likely the two US ones were comps of all three shows.
Not quite sure where your info comes from, but I thought I would have a look through the various papers today and work up a full ITV schedule. Not quite there as STV and Border are missing, presumably because they didn't take Goodbye Again, which is what I was using as the search hook, but the rest seem to be consistent with the day, and the majority, the time. The first edition was TX when there was industrial issues, so the whole of ITV had the same schedule - Daily Mirror: Because of the dispute between the Independent TV companies and members of the Association of Cinematograph, Television and Allied Technicians, ITV regional programmes for Saturday (and Sunday) will be as above.

Presuming the same TX Time is a network feed, there is little scope for mixing up the 3 editions that much - the best that could have been done was swapping edition 2 and 3, but it looks like it was either TX when Midlands did (roughly an hour earlier in the evening) or when London did, around 9 or 9.30)

14 September has guests listed as Traffic, Julie Driscoll, & Brian Auger Trinity, but that is both for Mid and Lon timeslots, which are 8.20 and 9.30 respectively.

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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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You may have noticed it already but..

There is Ike and Tina's great performance of River Deep Mountain High (in B/W ) from GA on that well known file site.
However it is claimed to be owned by 'Reeling in the Years' an American clip source.There also appears to be an edit near the end where I think a verse has been left out?..so it would be interesting to know if the full version exists..

Rather oddly for the US a few 'b/w' telerecordings have originated from there including a London Palladium originally made in colour and an edition of The Big Show

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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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fatcat wrote:You may have noticed it already but..

There is Ike and Tina's great performance of River Deep Mountain High (in B/W ) from GA on that well known file site.
However it is claimed to be owned by 'Reeling in the Years' an American clip source.There also appears to be an edit near the end where I think a verse has been left out?..so it would be interesting to know if the full version exists..

Rather oddly for the US a few 'b/w' telerecordings have originated from there including a London Palladium originally made in colour and an edition of The Big Show
You never know what gems they may have.

There are colour editions of A-R's "Hippodrome" for instance.
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Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

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stearn wrote:
Mark wrote:As for the newspaper billings, it seems it was messed about with considerably in the regions, either not shown or in a different order, so only the ATV region seems to have had it in the listed order on various guides, so that does make it more likely the two US ones were comps of all three shows.
Not quite sure where your info comes from, but I thought I would have a look through the various papers today and work up a full ITV schedule. Not quite there as STV and Border are missing, presumably because they didn't take Goodbye Again, which is what I was using as the search hook, but the rest seem to be consistent with the day, and the majority, the time. The first edition was TX when there was industrial issues, so the whole of ITV had the same schedule - Daily Mirror: Because of the dispute between the Independent TV companies and members of the Association of Cinematograph, Television and Allied Technicians, ITV regional programmes for Saturday (and Sunday) will be as above.

Presuming the same TX Time is a network feed, there is little scope for mixing up the 3 editions that much - the best that could have been done was swapping edition 2 and 3, but it looks like it was either TX when Midlands did (roughly an hour earlier in the evening) or when London did, around 9 or 9.30)

14 September has guests listed as Traffic, Julie Driscoll, & Brian Auger Trinity, but that is both for Mid and Lon timeslots, which are 8.20 and 9.30 respectively.
I spotted the London listing in TV Times, but I can't see any listings for Anglia.
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