Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

What's not currently on the box
fatcat
D-MAC
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by fatcat »

Mark wrote: You never know what gems they may have.

There are colour editions of A-R's "Hippodrome" for instance.
There is also a colour clip up there of Woody Allen boxing the kangeroo but it's not from reeling in the years.
I seem to recall a DVD about circus acts etc..I recognized that these were all clips taken from Hippodrome show and in colour too..

so heavens knows where all this stuff is coming from and who the dickens licensed (or didn't license) it ?.

...you talk to somebody in the UK about AR material and it's all "un licensable" and they haven't got a clue where it is anyway




.

User avatar
Tim D
405 lines
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:04 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Tim D »

fatcat wrote: ...you talk to somebody in the UK about AR material and it's all "un licensable" and they haven't got a clue where it is anyway.
As a co-production, Hippodrome is a slightly different animal to regular A-R output.

Rediffusion held the worldwide rights for the programme with the exclusion of the United States and its territories. Reelin' in the Years represents the U.S rights holder and will only be able to distribute the footage on that basis unless reaching agreement with Archbuild. This is why the Hippodrome DVD was released as Region 1 only.

The main obstacle with licensing A-R material is not so much the lack of material to release, as there is still a reasonable amount of footage in existence, but the non-existence of many of the original contracts. While it's not impossible to renegotiate the clearances, the legwork and financial settlements required are seen as cost-prohibitive in most cases. The likes of 'At Last the 1948 Show' had great sales potential which must have made it financially viable. Virtually anything can still be cleared if the contributors say yes and the finances are made available.
Mark wrote:You never know what gems they may have.
I believe the colour Hippodrome masters are held by the Library of Congress. Reelin' in the Years doesn't generally own the rights to the material it sells. It signs licensing contracts with copyright holders and cuts them in on the profits. The company will only hold dupes of material supplied to it for sales purposes by the archives that still hold the masters.

I really do share both of your frustrations with this situation though. I'd love to see more of the company's output being released and repeated on archive channels.

fatcat
D-MAC
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by fatcat »

Tim D wrote: As a co-production, Hippodrome is a slightly different animal to regular A-R output.

Rediffusion held the worldwide rights for the programme with the exclusion of the United States and its territories. Reelin' in the Years represents the U.S rights holder and will only be able to distribute the footage on that basis unless reaching agreement with Archbuild. This is why the Hippodrome DVD was released as Region 1 only.

The main obstacle with licensing A-R material is not so much the lack of material to release, as there is still a reasonable amount of footage in existence, but the non-existence of many of the original contracts. While it's not impossible to renegotiate the clearances, the legwork and financial settlements required are seen as cost-prohibitive in most cases. The likes of 'At Last the 1948 Show' had great sales potential which must have made it financially viable. Virtually anything can still be cleared if the contributors say yes and the finances are made available.

I believe the colour Hippodrome masters are held by the Library of Congress. Reelin' in the Years doesn't generally own the rights to the material it sells. It signs licensing contracts with copyright holders and cuts them in on the profits. The company will only hold dupes of material supplied to it for sales purposes by the archives that still hold the masters.

I really do share both of your frustrations with this situation though. I'd love to see more of the company's output being released and repeated on archive channels.
Hi Tim.

Obviously, you would know about such things so thank you for the reply.
While you're here...
I wondered if you knew anything about Bing Crosby in Ireland?
Basically an AR production with help from the Intertel colour unit. Directed by Benny Hill director John Robins.
Some time ago I added this to the IMDB (I add obscure stuff to the IMDB just to spark interest) since then I haven't heard a single thing about it, so now I am wondering now if I imagined the whole thing? LOL.

.

User avatar
Tim D
405 lines
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:04 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Tim D »

fatcat wrote: I wondered if you knew anything about Bing Crosby in Ireland?
Sorry, I don't know much at all about this programme. But you definitely didn't dream it.
Rediffusion screened it on 14/03/1967. It was also shown by Granada and ATV the following evening.

fatcat
D-MAC
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by fatcat »

Tim D wrote:
fatcat wrote: I wondered if you knew anything about Bing Crosby in Ireland?
Sorry, I don't know much at all about this programme. But you definitely didn't dream it.
Rediffusion screened it on 14/03/1967. It was also shown by Granada and ATV the following evening.
Thanks as looking back on the IMDB page I have the original transmission year wrong
and other contributors have since added that it AKA A Little Bit of Irish so I was able to look this up on Lost Shows
and apparently, it does exist..but probably as a B/W TR I would suspect now.

John Robins also did another collaboration with Intertel (for US ABC) in the same year The Canterville Ghost which rather bizarrely has Douglas Fairbanks jrn, Frankie Howard and Peter Noone etc in the cast.

User avatar
stearn
Committee
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:48 pm

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by stearn »

Image

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3298
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

Tim D wrote:
fatcat wrote: ...you talk to somebody in the UK about AR material and it's all "un licensable" and they haven't got a clue where it is anyway.
As a co-production, Hippodrome is a slightly different animal to regular A-R output.

Rediffusion held the worldwide rights for the programme with the exclusion of the United States and its territories. Reelin' in the Years represents the U.S rights holder and will only be able to distribute the footage on that basis unless reaching agreement with Archbuild. This is why the Hippodrome DVD was released as Region 1 only.

The main obstacle with licensing A-R material is not so much the lack of material to release, as there is still a reasonable amount of footage in existence, but the non-existence of many of the original contracts. While it's not impossible to renegotiate the clearances, the legwork and financial settlements required are seen as cost-prohibitive in most cases. The likes of 'At Last the 1948 Show' had great sales potential which must have made it financially viable. Virtually anything can still be cleared if the contributors say yes and the finances are made available.
Mark wrote:You never know what gems they may have.
I believe the colour Hippodrome masters are held by the Library of Congress. Reelin' in the Years doesn't generally own the rights to the material it sells. It signs licensing contracts with copyright holders and cuts them in on the profits. The company will only hold dupes of material supplied to it for sales purposes by the archives that still hold the masters.

I really do share both of your frustrations with this situation though. I'd love to see more of the company's output being released and repeated on archive channels.
Yes, there should be more released, they made some great shows.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3298
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

fatcat wrote:
Tim D wrote:
fatcat wrote: I wondered if you knew anything about Bing Crosby in Ireland?
Sorry, I don't know much at all about this programme. But you definitely didn't dream it.
Rediffusion screened it on 14/03/1967. It was also shown by Granada and ATV the following evening.
Thanks as looking back on the IMDB page I have the original transmission year wrong
and other contributors have since added that it AKA A Little Bit of Irish so I was able to look this up on Lost Shows
and apparently, it does exist..but probably as a B/W TR I would suspect now.

John Robins also did another collaboration with Intertel (for US ABC) in the same year The Canterville Ghost which rather bizarrely has Douglas Fairbanks jrn, Frankie Howard and Peter Noone etc in the cast.
The US colour copy of "A Little Bit Of Irish" is for sale on DVD on Amazon.com ( it's legit, on the Varese Fontana label).
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

fatcat
D-MAC
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by fatcat »

Well, thanks to the sages of the Mausoleum Club that has well and truly been put to bed now.. cheers.

although sadly Rediffusion's contributions to the advancement of colour LE productions will remain forgotten
(except amongst us) and anyone watching A little bit of Irish etc will probably assume it was just a Hollywood production?

..er now what were we talking about oh yes Pete and Dud.

It would be interesting to know what happened to the 1969 production as this appears not to have sold outside the UK, perhaps the same fate as the Dusty Springfield Show? (like Pete and Dud did not get on with ATV)


.

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3298
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

Add Benny Hill to that list!
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

User avatar
stearn
Committee
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:48 pm

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by stearn »

Goodbye Again came up elsewhere and it would seem that the conclusions here are wrong.

The last of the four shows (UK4) to be made in the UK was shown as the first of the Kraft Music Hall. A company in the US has resale rights and some screengrabs of Anne Bancroft and Mel Torme which, was demonstrated with screengrabs from the b/w UK4, match. A trawl of the newspapers comes up with a clipping from the Daily Mirror, 12 Jul 1969, that states the US had already seen the forthcoming edition of Goodbye Again, and sketches include a send up of 'The Graduate, and another with two insurance salesmen who barge in, rather like two mad rapists, asking 'Are you fully insured?' So if KRAFT1 and UK4 are the same, this means KRAFT2 was made from UK1-3, and may mean the RX of UK4 in the KAL guide is wrong. Scouring the web gives a TX on NBC of 30 April 1969 and in 'Anne Bancroft: A Life (pp166) is states: 'Anne took a break from accepting any work during the first half of 1969 - with one notable exception. She flew to London in April to appear on an episode of NBC's variety show Kraft Music Hall hosted by the British comedians Peter Cook and Dudley Moore. She sang "Limehouse Blues" and "Scarborough Fair," and Mel Torme provided a medley of love songs. The British satirists performed send-ups of two popular movies, the modern-day horror film Rosemary's Baby and, yes, The Graduate.'

The Middlesex Country Times reported on Friday 2 May, 1969 that: 'Students from Ealing Technical College took part in the filming of the Peter Cook and Dudley Moore Television show last Wednesday and Thursday [24/25 April]. About 90 went to Elstree Studios to be filmed for the A.T.V. show, which features guest stars Mel Torme and Ann Bancroft'

This would suggest that there was a typo on the paperwork for the month in the RX date, but it doesn't explain why colour was recorded especially for the US for the first three shows, but nothing was done about them until after the 4th show was recorded a year later and then transmitted in the US before the UK. The lukewarm/bad UK press reception of the first three may have had something to do with it.

User avatar
Spiny Norman
D-MAC
Posts: 877
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Spiny Norman »

Can't argue with that!

Another interesting thing is that Kraft2 appears to have had its own linking, or even different endings of sketches. That makes me wonder if those weren't newly recorded with UK4/Kraft1, after it was decided to reduce UK1-3 to just one US episode. (Apparently without any Dagenham "Pete 'n Dud" dialogues.)
This is nøt å signåture.™

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3298
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

Spiny Norman wrote:Can't argue with that!
No indeed, makes a lot more sense now, some more good detective work there, Stearn, so the KAL RX was wrong, and although the PAl copy is gone, there should be an NTSC copy of all or most of it.

I suppose there had always been the intention to do 4 UK shows, but despite the change of production, a year's gap is a long time, wonder what happened there?
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

User avatar
Spiny Norman
D-MAC
Posts: 877
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Spiny Norman »

Mark wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:Can't argue with that!
No indeed, makes a lot more sense now, some more good detective work there, Stearn, so the KAL RX was wrong, and although the PAl copy is gone, there should be an NTSC copy of all or most of it.

I suppose there had always been the intention to do 4 UK shows, but despite the change of production, a year's gap is a long time, wonder what happened there?
Disagreements would have to explain most of this, I guess?

There are still B/W PAL copies of all four UK shows. Based on stills it's very probable that both NTSC colour episodes still exist. (Well, one exist for sure of course, because KAL is screening it...)
This is nøt å signåture.™

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3298
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

The contract may have been for 4 shows, and it was honoured, rather than call it a day after the 3 obviously troubled productions.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

fatcat
D-MAC
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by fatcat »

Mark wrote:The contract may have been for 4 shows, and it was honoured, rather than call it a day after the 3 obviously troubled productions.
British and American humour production was pretty well alien to each other in those days and these compromises by
Uncle Lew ended up pleasing nobody..
The installation of an American producer and his methods on the final GA might have been the last straw?
Poor old Lew he did try ... next up was John Davidson followed by Marty Feldman.I think he allowed Benny Hill free
reign to make his Christmas show, but it was the Spotlight series that caused Benny problems in staying with ATV ?

Stella Richman, a head honcho at Rediffusion (after doing co productions) apparently said she would never do another co-production with the Americans again as it seemed like every week there was a man she didn't know coming over demanding this and that.

User avatar
Spiny Norman
D-MAC
Posts: 877
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Spiny Norman »

fatcat wrote:
Mark wrote:The contract may have been for 4 shows, and it was honoured, rather than call it a day after the 3 obviously troubled productions.
British and American humour production was pretty well alien to each other in those days and these compromises by
Uncle Lew ended up pleasing nobody..
The installation of an American producer and his methods on the final GA might have been the last straw?
Poor old Lew he did try ... next up was John Davidson followed by Marty Feldman.I think he allowed Benny Hill free
reign to make his Christmas show, but it was the Spotlight series that caused Benny problems in staying with ATV ?

Stella Richman, a head honcho at Rediffusion (after doing co productions) apparently said she would never do another co-production with the Americans again as it seemed like every week there was a man she didn't know coming over demanding this and that.
Indeed the Comedy Machine went the same way, I believe it went out extremely trimmed.
Although that may not have been first class material to start with.
This is nøt å signåture.™

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3298
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

Slightly off-topic, but it's possible that something (if not all) of the 7 episode Charlie Drake series, "Slapstick And Old Lace" from 71, might exist as NTSC copies in the US, ( all missing here).

Seen some references to clips of guest singers from it.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

User avatar
Spiny Norman
D-MAC
Posts: 877
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Spiny Norman »

Mark wrote:Slightly off-topic, but it's possible that something (if not all) of the 7 episode Charlie Drake series, "Slapstick And Old Lace" from 71, might exist as NTSC copies in the US, ( all missing here).

Seen some references to clips of guest singers from it.
Like perhaps here? http://www.retrovideo.com/footage_library/
This is nøt å signåture.™

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3298
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Mark wrote:Slightly off-topic, but it's possible that something (if not all) of the 7 episode Charlie Drake series, "Slapstick And Old Lace" from 71, might exist as NTSC copies in the US, ( all missing here).

Seen some references to clips of guest singers from it.
Like perhaps here? http://www.retrovideo.com/footage_library/
Not seen that one, but very interesting though.

Can't find the one I saw, but it mentions Acker Bilk (the resident performer on the series) and of course the series title.

Another series from ATV and Shaun O' Riordan of course.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

User avatar
stearn
Committee
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:48 pm

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by stearn »

Library of Congress have a listing
https://www.loc.gov/item/jots.200159992

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3298
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

Thanks, I notice it doesn't say the library definitely has it though, but it's a good bet something survives.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

fatcat
D-MAC
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by fatcat »

Mark wrote:
Not seen that one, but very interesting though.

Can't find the one I saw, but it mentions Acker Bilk (the resident performer on the series) and of course the series title.

Another series from ATV and Shaun O' Riordan of course.

Sadly I can still remember the theme tune.. Sort of a Good Old Days, a good lively production, but didn't take off ..needed a weekend slot I reckon..and it also appears to be Charlie Drake's television swansong and I think he got forgotten overnight after that?

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3298
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

Yes it was a bit of a let down after the dizzy heights of "The Worker", which was great, shame really.

Sadly, I can't remember the theme tune though!
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

brigham
HD
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by brigham »

The days when I could be sad to be able to remember things have long gone.
(Why would anyone be sad to remember something anyway? I can remember things with sadness, but surely that isn't the same thing?).

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3298
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

I'm usually good on themes tunes though.

It must all be still there, it's just getting to it, for instance, "Virgin Of The Secret Service", I recalled bits of it, but when I first saw the DVD, every episode came back to me ( with other connected memories).

I probably saw "Goodbye Again", but recall "Not Only But Also" more ( maybe because that was better!).
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

User avatar
Spiny Norman
D-MAC
Posts: 877
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Spiny Norman »

Mark wrote:I'm usually good on themes tunes though.

It must all be still there, it's just getting to it, for instance, "Virgin Of The Secret Service", I recalled bits of it, but when I first saw the DVD, every episode came back to me ( with other connected memories).

I probably saw "Goodbye Again", but recall "Not Only But Also" more ( maybe because that was better!).
It wasn't that different. Same theme, and some sketches appear in both!
This is nøt å signåture.™

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3298
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Mark wrote:I'm usually good on themes tunes though.

It must all be still there, it's just getting to it, for instance, "Virgin Of The Secret Service", I recalled bits of it, but when I first saw the DVD, every episode came back to me ( with other connected memories).

I probably saw "Goodbye Again", but recall "Not Only But Also" more ( maybe because that was better!).
It wasn't that different. Same theme, and some sketches appear in both!
Same thing with "Morecambe And Wise", the BBC shows are the ones people tend to remember the best, with the Thames shows ( again featuring some sketches from the BBC shows) not so well.

As wonderful as Thames and ATV were, the Beeb shows seemed often more polished.

Those opening filmed titles in different locations on "NOBA" were brilliant.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

User avatar
Spiny Norman
D-MAC
Posts: 877
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Spiny Norman »

Mark wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:
Mark wrote:I'm usually good on themes tunes though.

It must all be still there, it's just getting to it, for instance, "Virgin Of The Secret Service", I recalled bits of it, but when I first saw the DVD, every episode came back to me ( with other connected memories).

I probably saw "Goodbye Again", but recall "Not Only But Also" more ( maybe because that was better!).
It wasn't that different. Same theme, and some sketches appear in both!
Same thing with "Morecambe And Wise", the BBC shows are the ones people tend to remember the best, with the Thames shows ( again featuring some sketches from the BBC shows) not so well.

As wonderful as Thames and ATV were, the Beeb shows seemed often more polished.

Those opening filmed titles in different locations on "NOBA" were brilliant.
An unintentional extra joke is that the subtitles on the BBC's "best of" disc at one point say: "Now is the time, to RUN awaayyyy..."
This is nøt å signåture.™

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3298
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Goodbye Again (Pete & Dud) in colour

Post by Mark »

Didn't know that!...It's about time that "Best Of" was replaced with a set of surviving material.

Can't be any objections now, surely.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

Post Reply