Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

What's not currently on the box
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The Black Nun
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by The Black Nun »

Shada would be at the very bottom of my list of things to animate. Also, there's no original audio so this would be a complete remount not a reconstruction.

I can't say POTD did much for me but if you're going to animate something make it a great lost classic like Evil Of the Daleks or Marco Polo or Fury From The Deep.

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by brigham »

I wonder why the lost 'Marco Polo' is constantly trotted out as a 'classic'?
It went on and on, week after week, with nothing happening. Saturday would come round, with all the expectation, and then, when the captions rolled, the realisation; oh no, it's still THIS.
(capitals are for emphasis, not a fault)
I stuck it out. There were others at school who stopped watching it. Either way, we were glad when it was over, and Doctor Who returned to our screens.

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Mark »

I suppose the Sci-fi ones were always going to be more popular, but "Marco Polo" was a classic, great set of scripts and plenty going on in each episode as Tegana plots against them, "The Singing Sands" was my fav, and the swordfight in the final episode.

There are Telesnaps to cover most of them ( apart from some season 3 serials) and they are closer than any animation.

There a tiny clip on YT ( from Daniel Hill) watching something being done on green screen for the "Shada" release, not sure if it's an effects shot or what, so still hopeful for a 'Levene' style effort here!
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The Black Nun
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by The Black Nun »

I've never seen Marco Polo but I thought the audio was riveting and well and truly worthy of the label classic. I never liked the Hartnel space stories, he seemed ill at ease with them and much more in his element with the historicals. Aside from the first Daleks story and the Master Plan, most of the space serials were dire. The Sensorites or The Space Museum anybody? Or Galaxy Snore or The Chase? No thanks. It's really a bloody crying shame that all the best stories like The Massacre, The Mythmakers, the Smugglers and the rest are gone. At least we still have some of The Reign Of Terror and The Romans.

Personally I think they should just completely remake all the lost stories. They were much better than the muddled crap being written now, and with decent special effects and colour I think even The Space Pirates could be watchable. Fury From the Deep could be another Alien if done now.

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by brigham »

The missing stories are naturally the 'best' stories, because they are missing.
You can't look at them, and see how dire they were. All you've got to go on, are the stills, the sound, and the impression which they made on the target audience of the day.
The last being ignored if unfavourable!

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Mark »

brigham wrote:The missing stories are naturally the 'best' stories, because they are missing.
Or because some of us remember them in the first place.!

They were all great, a unique magic with lashings of atmosphere ( something that no one seems bothered about now).

It's a lost art now, creating something special in a TV studio, the soaps don't really manage it, one of the best exponents of Atmosphere, still remains "Sapphire & Steel".

"Star Wars" on the other hand, not my bag at all.

I'll take "The Space Museum" and "Galaxy 4" any time.
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Razor Eddie
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Razor Eddie »

Image

Random Whovian find in a NZ TV Weekly magazine from 18 Dec 1967
Contents may settle after packing.

Callan | The Hanged Man | Turtle's Progress | Kiwi TV

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paul.austin
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by paul.austin »

It's interesting to see who was "well known" in the past and is virtually forgotten in 2017 (see also: Edmond O'Brien who was considered more bankable than Peter Cushing in the fifties but today it's Cushing that has endured)

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Mark »

Marius Goring was a prestigious Actor and big name at the time, but it's even worse now, on a recent quiz show, a very young girl contestant had never heard of Sid James!

New Zealand finally got around to showing "Evil" in 1970.
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by drmih »

Mark wrote:Marius Goring was a prestigious Actor and big name at the time, but it's even worse now, on a recent quiz show, a very young girl contestant had never heard of Sid James!

New Zealand finally got around to showing "Evil" in 1970.
That'd be Sid James who died 41 years ago, potentially even before her parents were born:)

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by paul.austin »

drmih wrote:
Mark wrote:Marius Goring was a prestigious Actor and big name at the time, but it's even worse now, on a recent quiz show, a very young girl contestant had never heard of Sid James!

New Zealand finally got around to showing "Evil" in 1970.
That'd be Sid James who died 41 years ago, potentially even before her parents were born:)
Yeah; Sometimes I think that some of us old codgers don't realise the temporal perspective.

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Mark »

Oh yes, I understand why she said it, but it was still a weird thing to hear, another deflating example is when on the rare occasion an Archive TV question is answered correctly (usually something from 5 mins ago to me) and the contestant is asked how they knew it, they reply 'My granddad used to watch it...Ouch!

Apart from "Evil" and "Scarlet Pimpernel", Goring's performance in the superb film "A Matter Of Life And Death" is always a treat.
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paul.austin
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by paul.austin »

I once saw an older American person squeeing over a nostalgia digital channel showing "The Andy Griffith Show". I didn't have the heart to tell them that the network would much rather be showing something advertiser and younger demo friendly like "Seinfeld" but that they couldn't afford it.

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by brigham »

paul.austin wrote:I once saw an older American person squeeing over a nostalgia digital channel showing "The Andy Griffith Show". I didn't have the heart to tell them that the network would much rather be showing something advertiser and younger demo friendly like "Seinfeld" but that they couldn't afford it.
This was the main concern over the introduction of commercial television in Britain: the advertisers taking control of the programme material.

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Mark »

The BBC have announced the release of "Shada", which combines the original footage with new Animation.

A download on 24/11/17, followed a week later by DVD, Blu-ray and a Steelbook version.

Official trail here.

"Shada"
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Richard Charles Skryngestone
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Richard Charles Skryngestone »

In other words, the very thing Ian Levine thought of(and did) years ago, and which the BBC declared could never work.
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Duncan
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Duncan »

But you can surely understand why they wouldn’t have wanted to be beholden to Levine given his “personality”.

andrew baker
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by andrew baker »

The crucial difference is that the missing soundtrack has been recorded by the original cast. That seems worthwhile.

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by drmih »

Duncan wrote:But you can surely understand why they wouldn’t have wanted to be beholden to Levine given his “personality”.
I think it's much more likely than in commercialising a product that it would be far cleaner to start with an established team and business model, rather than having to negotiate with a group of people and voice actors - I appreciate that Ian funded it but whether the contracts were all established for future downloads / dvd / bluray and geographic regions I don't know.

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Richard Charles Skryngestone
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Richard Charles Skryngestone »

Well, every time one of us watches one of several 60's serials (including The Daleks) we are beholden to Ian Levine. Every time we watch one of several Pertwee serials in colour rather than b&w we are beholden to Ian Levine.

As for the "original cast", how did they manage to get David Brierly for this new release?

But my point was simple enough. The BBC/2Entertain/whoever is involved here declared that Shada was as complete as it could ever be.

Using his initiative, Ian Levine suggested combining new animation with newly-recorded audio from the original cast. The fine folk at the BBC rejected this as unworkable. So, Ian Levine used his own resources to get decent quality animation done(while not perfect it is still far superior to the animation in eg. The reign of Terror). He also managed to assemble almost the entire original cast. Brierly having sadly passed away, John Leeson was procured to replace him. Obviously the one missing person was the Doctor himself, but that can hardly be said to be Ian Levine's fault.

And the BBC responded by lashing out angrily. Even attempts from Levine to make his reconstruction available for the fans, without Levine making a single penny out of it, were aggressively stamped out.

Of course, we already have the 'Legacy' box set, with the 1992 VHS version of Shada. Levine's Shada remains illegal, and any trace of it that surfaces anywhere will have Auntie's legal team on it like wild dogs. But have the Beeb done likewise with other unofficial Who stories?

And now, years later, the BBC do the same thing that Levine did years ago. They have also managed to get Tom Baker involved, which is obviously enormous. But it also casts a lot of things in a negative light. Why were the BBC so against such a project back when Levine suggested it? And of course, we have to wonder what this now makes of the Legacy box set. Unless of course, there is material in that set that won't be on the new Shada DVD...

And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Levine's name is never mentioned on the new 'documentaries', and someone like Paul Vanezis takes credit for the whole idea.
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Duncan »

I can only presume from the above that you’ve never had any personal dealings with Ian Levine...

As for colour Pertwees how much did he contribute towards The Mind Of Evil?

He’s notorious for over stating his contribution towards recovering missing episodes and deep down just can’t seem to accept that it isn’t all about him. Look at the rather pathetic spats with Phil Morris over who has the “bragging rights”

And how did the BBC “lash out” at Levine re Shada? He offered it, they declined. End of.

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Richard Charles Skryngestone »

Ian Levine was obviously not the only person involved with the recovery of missing episodes, or the recolourisation of Pertwee episodes, but then I never said that he was. That's why I said "when we watch one of several".

I am also very aware that he can make some uncalled for comments, and has a rather short fuse. But that doesn't change the facts as they relate to this particular issue.

And once completed, the Levine Shada could have been allowed to be viewed online for free. There are other fan reconstructions that are extraordinarily easy to find for free online viewing. But the Ian Levine Shada was the one that the BBC had an obsession with removing all traces of it. Was it because the Legacy set was out around then? But what about years later? And how long has this current Shada been in the works for?

Really, the whole way this has played out just makes the entire team who produce the Doctor Who DVDs look bad.And this is far from the first time that that has been the case.
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DV

Post by Duncan »

Why does it make the “entire team” look bad?

Nobody asked Levine to make his Shada and of course he then acted like a petulant child when it was rejected.

Levine is a master of making himself out to be the victim and then some guillible Doctor Who fans accept everything he says at face value resulting in the BBC being branded as the villains of the piece.

Sure. Rant and rave if you want, and at the same time portray yourself as the very worst kind of cliched obsessive nutter Doctor Who fan, but I suspect it will all fall on deaf ears.

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Richard Bignell »

Richard Charles Skryngestone wrote:In other words, the very thing Ian Levine thought of(and did) years ago, and which the BBC declared could never work.
I don't think they *ever* said that.

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Richard Bignell »

Richard Charles Skryngestone wrote:And once completed, the Levine Shada could have been allowed to be viewed online for free. There are other fan reconstructions that are extraordinarily easy to find for free online viewing. But the Ian Levine Shada was the one that the BBC had an obsession with removing all traces of it.
That's pretty inaccurate on every level. Ian gave at least two private showings of the story at his house for those who wanted to take up the offer, but he kept the circulation of the completed episodes to those who had actively participated in its construction. The BBC didn't have to go hunting for it. It was Ian's own choice that it was not, under any circumstances, to be circulated or put online, and he made that quite clear numerous times after he completed it, even though some people subsequently ignored that request.

Let's also not forget that Ian completed Shada first and foremost because he wanted it completed for his own personal pleasure, just as he has done with all his other DW productions. Offering it to the BBC for DVD use was largely a secondary consideration.

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Richard Charles Skryngestone
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DV

Post by Richard Charles Skryngestone »

Duncan wrote:Why does it make the “entire team” look bad?

Nobody asked Levine to make his Shada and of course he then acted like a petulant child when it was rejected.

Levine is a master of making himself out to be the victim and then some guillible Doctor Who fans accept everything he says at face value resulting in the BBC being branded as the villains of the piece.

Sure. Rant and rave if you want, and at the same time portray yourself as the very worst kind of cliched obsessive nutter Doctor Who fan, but I suspect it will all fall on deaf ears.
The irony is rather thick here.

I'm not "ranting and raving". I'm merely observing the reality of the situation. How does that make me a "cliched obsessive nutter"? And how did Ian Levine behave like a "petulant child", for that matter?

I believe what we have here is the same old reality where the BBC Worldwide's "view" on things differs from what the average person actually perceives. As the obvious example, there was the remastered Aztecs, which included the recovered episode from Galaxy 4. The BBC people could not comprehend why fans would feel ripped off having to double dip for The Aztecs to get the Galaxy 4 footage, rather than putting the Galaxy 4 footage on a separate (never-before-released-on-DVD) serial. The standard response was to mention how many years separated the two DVD releases of The Aztecs!

The behaviour when news of the recovered episodes of Enemy and Web leaked out also speaks volumes about the attitudes of these people.

Are you saying that Ian Levine can't feel ripped off over this entire debacle? Are you saying that fans who bought the Legacy box set can't likewise feel an irritation over having to double dip AGAIN if they want the completed Shada?

I would honestly like to know precisely WHEN and under WHAT specific circumstances the BBC's decision to animate Shada came about? and no, it hasn't been that long since Shada received its previous DVD release, has it? Likewise, from what i can tell, many of the Special Features on The Legacy appear to be missing from the new Shada release. But I suppose my noticing these things is just more proof of my being the very worst kind of cliched obsessive nutter Doctor Who fan, simply ranting and raving...
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Duncan »

Well anyone reading your posts on this forum re Doctor Who can swiftly draw their own conclusions...

Why should the BBC reveal anything about Shada and as for Levine feeling ripped off, he’s had his version that he can watch whenever he likes. If you’ve lost sleep over the years since he made it feeling that the BBC have denied you this then frankly you need to get out a bit more...

I’m curious to see the new version but then again I’ve not looked at Shada since August 1992 or whenever the original VHS came out.

As for Galaxy 4 what were you proposing, a DVD with 25 mins of footage? The episode was simply a bonus and a chance to get an improved version of the Aztecs.

I think you grossly overestimate people’s interest in classic Doctor Who and the show in general.

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Richard Charles Skryngestone »

Duncan wrote:Well anyone reading your posts on this forum re Doctor Who can swiftly draw their own conclusions...
Fair enough.
Why should the BBC reveal anything about Shada
I said I would like to know the details. I never said that they have to do anything.
and as for Levine feeling ripped off, he’s had his version that he can watch whenever he likes. If you’ve lost sleep over the years since he made it feeling that the BBC have denied you this then frankly you need to get out a bit more...
I haven't lost any sleep over it.

And Levine's feeling is clearly as he spent over £40 000 on his version, because the BBC clearly had no interest in such a project, to now have the BBC come along and do the exact same thing... Can you not see the reason he may be miffed? or do you simply chalk that up to more raving petulant lunacy?
I’m curious to see the new version but then again I’ve not looked at Shada since August 1992 or whenever the original VHS came out.
Unlike those of us who already forked out a sum of money for...

Image

Which of course, came out some time AFTER Levine's Shada was completed.

Do you see where I am coming from yet?
As for Galaxy 4 what were you proposing, a DVD with 25 mins of footage? The episode was simply a bonus and a chance to get an improved version of the Aztecs.
No. I very clearly said that there were still other Doctor Who serials that had never been released on DVD before at that time(including Hartnell ones!). And that galaxy 4 would have been far better-suited being on one of those, than on a serial like The Aztecs, which had already had a DVD release.
I think you grossly overestimate people’s interest in classic Doctor Who and the show in general.
Funny. I keep hearing how Doctor Who is more popular now than ever before, and how much better the writing is too! But maybe the reason interest in Classic Doctor Who may be on the wane, is because of the way BBCWW treats their loyal customers.
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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DVDs

Post by Duncan »

I’m perfectly aware of the DVD of Shada and indeed bought it but haven’t got round to watching it because I wasn’t that bothered with it in the first place. It certainly doesn’t make me think of conspiracy theories etc re other versions of it.

Re Levine. How much did he spend on it from his own money. His ranting yesterday implied it was all his own money whereas wasn’t this backed by numerous people. Again it hardly matters. They presumably went into it with their eyes open and got a version of Shada that they could enjoy.

Now people outside his circle can enjoy a different variant of it. I really can’t see the problem other than Levine’s ego once again getting in the way of better judgement on his part.

As for BBC WW treating their customers. Well they’ve given us an animated Power and now Shada. I’d say their customers should be pretty pleased. Similarly Classic Doctor Who was cancelled nearly 30 years ago and has been a modest success for BBC WW. We should be grateful that they funded the efforts of the restoration team.

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Re: Doctor Who Classic Series and DV

Post by ian b »

Richard Charles Skryngestone wrote:I would honestly like to know precisely WHEN and under WHAT specific circumstances the BBC's decision to animate Shada came about?
I'd guess around the time Worldwide had evaluated the returns from the animated POWER...

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