TSW's "alternative" schedule

What's not currently on the box
Brock
HD
Posts: 1488
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 am

TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Brock »

Am I right in thinking that TSW refused to show certain network programmes in the 1980s not because of regional opt-outs, but simply because its management didn't like them? I didn't live in the TSW region but I seem to remember an announcement that they weren't going to show Hollywood Wives and replacing it with a repeat of Whicker's World or something like that. I remember that they had a rather unconventional managing director at first (Kevin Goldstein-Jackson) who took a few risks with the schedule.

JezR
625 lines
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:08 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by JezR »

TSW replaced The Nineteenth Hole mid-series with 'special' showings of things like On the Buses.

They had started with aspirations of producing networked programmes, but never managed to really get anything taken up apart from cheap daytime stuff. The most notable example was 'Where there's a Will' staring Patrick MacNee which cost £750,000 then, but which they could only get back £25,000 from the standard network rates at the time - and I think it only got that some years after it was actually made.

Jackson also had public disagreements with Granada over the latter's policy for purchasing overseas material on behalf of ITV.

Brock
HD
Posts: 1488
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Brock »

JezR wrote: They had started with aspirations of producing networked programmes, but never managed to really get anything taken up apart from cheap daytime stuff.
Such as Sounds Like Music, the quiz show about musical theatre presented by Bobby Crush, which apparently didn't have any money for music clips and relied on recordings of amateurs singing them instead...

JezR
625 lines
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:08 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by JezR »

It was "That's my Dog" that first came to mind for me.

User avatar
Ian Wegg
625 lines
Posts: 336
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Ian Wegg »

I seem to recall that when Southern opted out of a controversial networked series because it considered it unsuitable for a southern audience the decision made national headlines. I can't remember now what the programme was but it caused quite a stir. I may be wrong but it seems to me unlikely that similar unilateral censorship would have been routine at TSW without being challenged.

Brock
HD
Posts: 1488
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Brock »

Presumably, though, any ITV contractor could decline to show any programme that it wasn't required to show under the terms of its franchise (such as the News). Did the "Big Five" companies have some way of forcing the smaller companies to take their output?

User avatar
doubleM
625 lines
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by doubleM »

Each franchise holder had a lot of leeway on what to broadcast well into the 1980s. If they thought network offerings were weak or would not appeal to local interests they could pre-empt with something else. The 'northern' Wheeltappers and Shunters' from Granada I remember being shunted off peak by some southern stations in the 1970s.

In the 1980s Yorkshire made some decisions in it's own interest foregoing the network offering ... the two main examples I remember were the decision not to show the BAFTA awards one year - YTV claimed that, at that period, they were heavily biassed toward BBC programmes and didn't need to provide publicity for that reason... and another was an FA Cup Replay between two London (I think) teams on a Thu night. This was the time that FA Cup finals were simulcast on BBC and ITV .... Yorkshire suggested there was little interest in the teams represented for the replay and said for the few that were interested they could watch the BBC whilst they offered an alternative.

I think in both instances the local audience for the replacements were pretty decent.
.. ah yes, well worn carpets and the pungent smell of over-boiled vegetables!

User avatar
doubleM
625 lines
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by doubleM »

Brock wrote: Did the "Big Five" companies have some way of forcing the smaller companies to take their output?
I don't know about force .. but the small companies would not be foolish enough to refuse to screen the major programmes from the Big 5 network programme providers.

The IBA limited foreign output to no more that 14% of programming, so they could not have just shown films or US series ... and I don't think that local news or similar output as replacements would have helped the audience numbers (and consequently advertising revenue) in opposition to what BBC 1 were showing.
.. ah yes, well worn carpets and the pungent smell of over-boiled vegetables!

Brock
HD
Posts: 1488
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Brock »

doubleM wrote: The IBA limited foreign output to no more that 14% of programming, so they could not have just shown films or US series ... and I don't think that local news or similar output as replacements would have helped the audience numbers (and consequently advertising revenue) in opposition to what BBC 1 were showing.
Presumably, though, they could show other programmes from the big companies rather than the scheduled network offering, as demonstrated by JezR's example of On the Buses (LWT) replacing The Nineteenth Hole (Central).

User avatar
doubleM
625 lines
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by doubleM »

Brock wrote: Presumably, though, they could show other programmes from the big companies rather than the scheduled network offering, as demonstrated by JezR's example of On the Buses (LWT) replacing The Nineteenth Hole (Central).
Oh yes, happened all the time ... not just the small companies e.g. LWT replaced Central's 'Pictures' (1983) at 9.00 pm on a Fri with a repeat run of 'The Professionals' (shunting 'Pictures' off peak, 'post News at Ten'). Thames and Granada did not take the network broadcasts of the Southern serial 'The Capone Investment' in 1973, Granada showed a US import and Thames ran 'The Best of 'Father Dear Father''. Both later showed the Southern serial in '74 - Granada off peak.

Yorkshire Television never originally screened 'The Prisoner' at all, nor the LWT anthology 'The Frighteners' - though neither of these were in a 'network' slot. Southern did not broadcast LWT's 'Tales of Unease'.

Ulster, for obvious political reasons, did not take the network transmission of 'The Guardians' in 1971, they showed 'The Comedians' from Granada instead.
.. ah yes, well worn carpets and the pungent smell of over-boiled vegetables!

Brock
HD
Posts: 1488
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Brock »

doubleM wrote: Ulster, for obvious political reasons, did not take the network transmission of 'The Guardians' in 1971, they showed 'The Comedians' from Granada instead.
According to this article, the ITA actually stopped them from showing it:
Television Heaven wrote:The Independent Television Authority was so concerned about the political content of the series and a potential misunderstanding between the depiction of the series' sinister uniformed paramilitary force called "The Guardians of the Realm" (known for short as "The Guardians" or simply "The G's") in relation to the name of the police force of the Republic of Ireland Garda Síochána (which translates into English as “Guardians of the Peace”) that the series was refused transmission in Northern Ireland.
Didn't think they had that power. (Could be another bit of mythology that's escaped onto the internet of course.)

Ian Fryer
405 lines
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:43 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Ian Fryer »

doubleM wrote:
Brock wrote: Presumably, though, they could show other programmes from the big companies rather than the scheduled network offering, as demonstrated by JezR's example of On the Buses (LWT) replacing The Nineteenth Hole (Central).

Yorkshire Television never originally screened 'The Prisoner' at all, nor the LWT anthology 'The Frighteners' - though neither of these were in a 'network' slot. Southern did not broadcast LWT's 'Tales of Unease'.

Ulster, for obvious political reasons, did not take the network transmission of 'The Guardians' in 1971, they showed 'The Comedians' from Granada instead.
To be fair, Yorkshire Television didn't exist when The Prisoner was on its first run. I just did a quick check on Times Digital Archive and viewers in Yorkshire would have seen it on Granada from October 27th 1967.

User avatar
doubleM
625 lines
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by doubleM »

Ian Fryer wrote: To be fair, Yorkshire Television didn't exist when The Prisoner was on its first run. I just did a quick check on Times Digital Archive and viewers in Yorkshire would have seen it on Granada from October 27th 1967.
Of course, I'd forgotten the 1968 fanchise round!

It's interesting that given the cult status of 'The Prisoner', although it was reasonably slow to build its reputation if I remember, that they didn't give it a repeat run though ... Yorkshire certainly showed 'Thunderbirds' in the 70s ... and other series they weren't originally around for like the 60s 'Batman'.
.. ah yes, well worn carpets and the pungent smell of over-boiled vegetables!

Ian Fryer
405 lines
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:43 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Ian Fryer »

I remember those Batman screenings well - god the younger me loved that show! YTV were weird with archive reruns. In the seventies they seemed to actively dislike sci-fi, but I also vividly recall them screening Phoenix Five and Thunderbirds.

User avatar
doubleM
625 lines
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by doubleM »

Ian Fryer wrote:I remember those Batman screenings well - god the younger me loved that show! YTV were weird with archive reruns. In the seventies they seemed to actively dislike sci-fi, but I also vividly recall them screening Phoenix Five and Thunderbirds.
Yes, they were pretty adverse to making sci-fi/fantasy drama themselves in that period, for adults or children, preferring 'realistic' subjects - contemporary or period pieces ... yet were happy to e.g. give 'Space 1999' Year One a good run in a decent slot, mirroring ATV on Thursday evenings - at least at the start. They gave 'Star Maidens' a slot just before the News at 5.45, and took 'The Tomorrow People', 'Timeslip', those HTV fantasy serials etc.
.. ah yes, well worn carpets and the pungent smell of over-boiled vegetables!

TonyCurrie
625 lines
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:19 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by TonyCurrie »

Brock wrote:
doubleM wrote:
Didn't think they had that power. (Could be another bit of mythology that's escaped onto the internet of course.)
The IBA was the broadcaster legally, and all schedules at all times had to have IBA approval. The IBA had the absolute right to ban a programme, or demand it be transmitted in a different slot.

Brock
HD
Posts: 1488
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Brock »

TonyCurrie wrote:
Brock wrote:
doubleM wrote:
Didn't think they had that power. (Could be another bit of mythology that's escaped onto the internet of course.)
The IBA was the broadcaster legally, and all schedules at all times had to have IBA approval. The IBA had the absolute right to ban a programme, or demand it be transmitted in a different slot.
Oh, OK (it was my error, not doubleM's!). Were there any other programmes whose transmission was blocked by the ITA/IBA?

User avatar
doubleM
625 lines
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by doubleM »

TonyCurrie wrote:
Brock wrote:
doubleM wrote:
Didn't think they had that power. (Could be another bit of mythology that's escaped onto the internet of course.)
The IBA was the broadcaster legally, and all schedules at all times had to have IBA approval. The IBA had the absolute right to ban a programme, or demand it be transmitted in a different slot.
doubleM did not say that! Not my quote ... actually posted by 'Brock'

... just to set the record straight.

Edit .. thanks to Brock for confirming!
.. ah yes, well worn carpets and the pungent smell of over-boiled vegetables!

User avatar
Billy Smart
625 lines
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Billy Smart »

doubleM wrote: and another was an FA Cup Replay between two London (I think) teams on a Thu night. This was the time that FA Cup finals were simulcast on BBC and ITV .... Yorkshire suggested there was little interest in the teams represented for the replay and said for the few that were interested they could watch the BBC whilst they offered an alternative.

I think in both instances the local audience for the replacements were pretty decent.
That can only be 27 May 1982 (Spurs 1 QPR 0). Yorkshire's replacement service was Emmerdale Farm followed by the 1965 film The Sons of Katie Elder, starring John Wayne and Dean Martin.

User avatar
Juswuh
D-MAC
Posts: 520
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:04 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Juswuh »

I'm pretty sure Crossroads had been running for several years before it appeared on Granada.

User avatar
Simon Coward
D-MAC
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:56 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Simon Coward »

Juswuh wrote:I'm pretty sure Crossroads had been running for several years before it appeared on Granada.
September 1972, I think, was the first time Granada took it - to coincide with the increased broadcasting hours that arrived that autumn.
We all have to eat a peck of dirt before we die.

JezR
625 lines
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:08 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by JezR »

If we are talking 1970s, very little was mandated to be networked. Those that were included the ITN national news, the main weekday play and documentary (usually Tuesday), the two main current affairs programmes World in Action and This Week, the Sunday play, and World of Sport. The likes of Coronation Street, Crossroads, Opportnity Knocks etc had their position through popularity and the rest by cost considerations.

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3335
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Mark »

I certainly remember "Crossroads" in 72 in the Granada region, several years away from being networked I think.

There was a great series called "The Law Centre" in 78, from ATV, who placed it in a good slot on Saturday nights, but other regions screened it very late weekdays (Granada had it late on Thursdays) ATV moved it to a later slot in the end.

I always thought "Wilde Alliance" felt like a Friday night series, but Tuesday nights didn't seem to do it any favours.

"Doctor On the Go" series 2 had been on the shelf for months before it eventually turned up on Sunday nights in 77, I always assumed it was down to finding a slot for it.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

ian b
D-MAC
Posts: 662
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:58 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by ian b »

Granada had ignored CROSSROADS until 1972, only to join in with episode 1628 on 11th September. Which ATV had first transmitted 4th January 1972.

Which meant that in 1975 Granada leapt from #2030 to #2300 with a version of Meg's catch-up programme the only thing to bridge the gap.

User avatar
John Williams
Committee
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:38 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by John Williams »

ian b wrote:Granada had ignored CROSSROADS until 1972, only to join in with episode 1628 on 11th September. Which ATV had first transmitted 4th January 1972.

Which meant that in 1975 Granada leapt from #2030 to #2300 with a version of Meg's catch-up programme the only thing to bridge the gap.
One of the funny things is that Tyne Tees also started showing Crossroads for the first time in 1972, but started from a completely different episode to Granada. It must have been hell if you were a commercial traveller and a Crossroads fan in those days.

User avatar
Simon Coward
D-MAC
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:56 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Simon Coward »

Mark wrote:There was a great series called "The Law Centre" in 78, from ATV, who placed it in a good slot on Saturday nights, but other regions screened it very late weekdays (Granada had it late on Thursdays) ATV moved it to a later slot in the end.
I rather enjoyed The Law Centre too, though where I lived at the time all seven episodes were shown late night, and it wasn't until sometime later that I discovered that it had started life, in its home region, as a peak-time drama.
We all have to eat a peck of dirt before we die.

Ian Fryer
405 lines
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:43 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Ian Fryer »

Quite by coincidence I've today been researching the career of Georgina Moon for something and it turns out she was one of the main stars of The Law Centre.

User avatar
Simon Coward
D-MAC
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:56 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Simon Coward »

Ian Fryer wrote:Quite by coincidence I've today been researching the career of Georgina Moon for something and it turns out she was one of the main stars of The Law Centre.
I don't think she was... in fact I don't think she was in it at all. I can't think of anything you could be mixing it up with, either, you've stumped me.
We all have to eat a peck of dirt before we die.

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3335
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Mark »

No, I think Miss Moon was rather too busy at Yorkshire, doing "You're Only Young Twice".

There was a good cast on "Law Centre" though, headed by the excellent James Maxwell, Suzanne Neve and also Julie Peasgood, whom ( for some reason) I recall throwing a bit of a wobbly in one episode.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

User avatar
Simon Coward
D-MAC
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:56 pm

Re: TSW's "alternative" schedule

Post by Simon Coward »

Mark wrote:No, I think Miss Moon was rather too busy at Yorkshire, doing "You're Only Young Twice".

There was a good cast on "Law Centre" though, headed by the excellent James Maxwell, Suzanne Neve and also Julie Peasgood, whom ( for some reason) I recall throwing a bit of a wobbly in one episode.
Ha ha, yes, in some regions they were broadcast on the same evening. I realise it was meant partly in jest, but The Law Centre tapes had been on the shelf for a while, so it may not have been impossible to appear as a regular in both series. I've no idea when You're Only Young Twice was recorded but The Law Centre was taped in two blocks: five of the seven between April and June, and then the other two in August and September - all in 1977. So there was a gap of a year or more between recording and transmission, aside from the one September episode.

Don't forget Carl Andrews, who was the fourth regular in the short series.

Julie Peasgood's character was quite the feminist, I seem to recall, in the 1970s manner too which I guess meant, to use that unfortunate adjective, strident. Hence perhaps the wobbly you mention although I recall there was an episode where she was the victim of a sexual assault, or perhaps an attempted one, I can't quite remember- it is nearly 40 years ago - but either way a strong reaction there would be understandable.
We all have to eat a peck of dirt before we die.

Post Reply