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The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:18 pm
by George White
I was listening to the excellent Tim Worthington's Looks Unfamiliar podcast, and Martin Ruddock was discussing the Legend of Tim Tyler, the 70s weirdo-German kids' serial shot in Lanzarote, which he believes has Tom Baker dubbing the voice of German spaghetti western stalwart Horst Frank as the evil Baron. And they brought up how the ephemeral nature of these dubs, that many of them are missing, that none of them credited their voice actors (bar the presumably more prestigious likes of Monkey and the Water Margin - with the likes of Miriam Margolyes, David Collings, Andrew Sachs, Simon Lack - Margolyes and Sachs being regulars in this field).
Baker did dub stuff around that time.
And you do notice the same names crop up, especially the North Americans in Britain,especially in the anime dubbing in the late 80s, usually orchestrated by George "Captain Hopper" Roubicek who worked on Monkey as well. Although Britain despite the likes of David De Keyser and Robert Rietty, didn't quite have the same organised dubbing system the Italians had (of all the hundreds of Italian films released in English, all dubbed by the same group of fifteen or so dubbers).

I know Gabriel Woolf and Francis Matthews narrated a lot of the 60s Tales from Europe.
There's some oddities, there's a Spanish b-movie adaptation of Journey to the Centre of the Earth, 1976's Where Time Began, which goes very Who-ey, where Kenneth More (who AFAIK dubs himself)'s two assistants are dubbed by Christopher Guard and Deborah Watling, dubbed in London rather than the usual Rome, for these sort of things.


Have you ever watched something and certain that someone did the voice, though they're uncredited? I had it with Harry Towb in Tomb Raider Chronicles, later confirmed by his friend/colleague/fellow TR voice, Kerry Shale.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:40 pm
by The Lurker In The Shadows
Jean-Pierre Cassel's King Louis sounding remarkably like Richard Briers in the Richard Lester Musketeers films always used to throw me, as Briers was uncredited for the dubbing.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:12 am
by Spiny Norman
Not exactly the same thing but I know of one Italian movie that was dubbed in a completely different direction in order to shift emphasis to Bardot; sadly the changes were for the worst.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:09 pm
by George White
Roger Delgado IIRC dubbed Bird with the Crystal Plumage, like Tenebrae, dubbed by dubbing allstar Robert Rietty in London rather than the usual Argento-dubbers of Nick Alexander, Ted Rusoff, Carolyn de Fonseca, etc (there were a group of around 15 Americans, Canadians, a few Brits, and New Zealanders/Australians almost always mistaken as Brits - who basically did EVERY Italian exploitation movie to get a release in the English language, just churning them out) in Rome. Apparently, Rietty angered a few of the Roman-based dubbers because he'd take plum films from them.

Cyril Cusack I know did a bit of dubbing while making Italian gangster films, and ended up doing a few Argentos IIRC.
Karl Malden dubbed some Mexican films while making a movie in Florida.
Anthony Quinn dubbed spaghetti westerns during filming movies in Italy.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:28 pm
by George White
Some info about German Doctor Who dubbing.
Michael Schwarzmaier, the German voice of all classic Doctors was in Just Jaeckin's Girls.
Rampatrouille Orion's Reinhard Glemnitz - the German voice of Anthony Ainley also appeared in the Winds of War, Patrick Pacard, Sydney Sheldon's Bloodline, the German voice of Michael Caine, Richard Harris, Anthony Perkins and Jacques Perrin
Gerhard Acktun, the German voice for Jamie was the German voice of Meowth.
Alexandra Mink, the voice of Tegan voiced such cartoons as Felidae, Vicky the Viking, and dubs Jennifer Jason Leigh and Winona Ryder. Ursula Ursula Wolff, the voice of Sarah was Agathe Von Trapp in the German films that inspired the Sound of Music, and voiced Schulmadchen Report, Carl Schenkel's softcore Dracula with Gianni Garko.
Gudrun Vaupel, the voice of Rani also worked on the Schulmadchen Report films.
Klaus Kindler, the German Brigadier gave Clint Eastwood a very haunting, deep German voice. Also dubbed Al Pacino, Jean-Paul Belmondo, and dubbed Dick Powell, Olmo Dalco in Bertolucci's 1900, Howard K Smith in various.Alain Delon and Steve McQueen, dubbed Richard Harris in Juggernaut, Domenica Paolella's Maskenball, Zehetgruber/Joachim Fuchsberger's Superbug, the German Herbie, War of the Satellites, Divine Emanuelle with Laura Gemser, the Maurice Ronet-Anton Diffring-Marthe Keller film Only the Wind Knows the Answer.
Herbert Weicker, the German Borusa dubbed Leonard Nimoy in DS9, appeared in Bond spoof Bonditis, dubbed Christopher Lee in most of his films, a ZDF Poirot, some of Nippon Animation/Studio Ghibli's World Masterpiece Theater (like Willy Fog and Dogtanian, Vicky the Viking also a Monarch coproduction), also dubbed Bernard Lee, Roscoe Lee Browne, Jack Webb, Walter Gotell, Yaphet Kotto, Sidney Poitier, Michael Pate, and John Hancock in 10.
Jan Koester, the German Turlough was in films billed above Karl Otto Alberty and Siegfried Rauch, Der Kommissar, a 60s CBS version of Heidi, and the Academy Award nominated Gotz George Hitler Diaries comedy Schtonk!

Carin Tietze, the German Ace is one of the stars of the notorious German-South African ET knockoff Nukie and has appeared in the various SOKO series - which exist in the same world as The Bill IIRC.
The German Chancellor Flavia was Eva Pflug, star of Raumpatroiulle Orion.
Fred Maire, another Classic Who voice also worked on Superbug, regularly dubbed Klaus Kinski and Charles Aidman.
Manfred Erdman, voice of Rassilon voiced Interview with the Vampire, Dark City, LethalWeapon, Mr. T, Asterix, Megatron, Zoidberg.
Alexander Allerson - whose live action credits include starring as one of the Germans in the McKenzie Break, Battle of Britain and a few Hill and Spencer films voiced the Brigadier in Battlefield.
German Simpsons/Muppets voice Willi Robke voiced the Daleks.
Arnim Andre voiced the Castellan, and has voiced Shatner, Michael Biehn, Broadbent, Christopher Timothy, Marc Alaimo, dubbed Mark of the Vampire on rerelease.

Giovanni Petrucci, who was in L'Avventura for Antonioni, Lola Colt - the Lola Falana spaghetti western, etc dubbed Hartnell in the Name of the Doctor.
Hans Dittberner, voice of Rory's dad in NuWho voiced Captain Future and dubbed 1941.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:42 pm
by paul.austin
Sabine Bohlmann - Lisa and Maggie in german Simpsons - was pretty much every little girl in dubbed McCoy Who from Stellar to Squeak. She also dubbed Joann Kenny as Jean in Curse of Fenric.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:02 pm
by John Williams
George White wrote:Roger Delgado IIRC dubbed Bird with the Crystal Plumage, like Tenebrae, dubbed by dubbing allstar Robert Rietty in London rather than the usual Argento-dubbers of Nick Alexander, Ted Rusoff, Carolyn de Fonseca, etc (there were a group of around 15 Americans, Canadians, a few Brits, and New Zealanders/Australians almost always mistaken as Brits - who basically did EVERY Italian exploitation movie to get a release in the English language, just churning them out) in Rome. Apparently, Rietty angered a few of the Roman-based dubbers because he'd take plum films from them.

Cyril Cusack I know did a bit of dubbing while making Italian gangster films, and ended up doing a few Argentos IIRC.
Karl Malden dubbed some Mexican films while making a movie in Florida.
Anthony Quinn dubbed spaghetti westerns during filming movies in Italy.
I think Theresa Russell was the female lead in Tenebrae.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:08 am
by George White
Yes, indeed. Alongside David Graham and Adrienne Posta.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:44 am
by Mark
Another familiar voice over the years was Frank Duncan ( Gramps in "Luna") he did many shows and films including "The New Avengers".

I always found it annoying when the odd Actor in films and TV were dubbed, as it just didn't work (especially if you knew what they sounded like in the first place).

Watching "Murder At The Gallop" over Christmas and Kevin Stoney pops up at the end, but sounding somewhat different, and the odd decision to dub Valerie Leon with June Whitfield in "Carry On Girls".

Jane Merrow with another voice in "UFO", regular Georgina Moon was dubbed too, and even Keith Alexander ( Lt Ford) is dubbed for one episode.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:42 am
by brigham
What would be the purpose of these dubbings? I can understand why one might dub Gert Fröbe; but Kevin Stoney?

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:58 pm
by George White
brigham wrote:What would be the purpose of these dubbings? I can understand why one might dub Gert Fröbe; but Kevin Stoney?
They did it a lot in early Professionals, the likes of Roger Lloyd Pack dubbed with fauxreign voices from the likes of Robert Rietty.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:49 pm
by Mark
I suppose it was down to the Directors choice, or if Actors are not available for Post-Synching, such as ( supposedly) Yvonne Antrobus in "Dr Who And The Daleks".

But Kevin Stoney playing a Doctor in the Marple film, is very odd to watch.

June Whitfield's dubbing of Valerie Leon, was especially odd, as JW was also in the "Girls" film playing one of the main characters.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:40 am
by Mark
Watching "The Professionals" ("Mixed Doubles") the other night, the familiar tones of the aforementioned Frank Duncan, voicing a middle eastern president.!

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:05 pm
by George White
The German animation Stoaways on the Ark, dubbed for the US market with Harry Towb as Noah, and Peter Hawkins and David Graham among others.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:06 pm
by Mark
The brilliant Frank Duncan strikes again!

In last nights episode of "Randall And Hopkirk" (True Ent) "The Trouble With Women", Duncan dubbed the actor Robert Russell, and in tonight's, "Vendetta For A Dead Man", he was the police voice on radio, and then dubbed the Detective, played by William Dysart.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:01 pm
by Mark
Another variation on the subject of dubbing, is when an Actor re-dub's a line in an already completed show.

Was watching "The Persuaders!", "Chain Of Events" on True, earlier, and Suzanna Leigh re-dubs part of a phone number she asks for in one scene.

Noticed a couple of re-dubs, when watching Series 1 of "Ghost Squad" again, including someone's name in the episode "Princess" ( I think it was that one).

A variety of reasons, why it would be done, of course.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:19 am
by jno
I once met Reece Dinsdale by accident - he is dubbed in the Minder episode "Willesden Suite", I asked him why. He told me the producers thought his voice didn't sound tough enough but was happy someone realised it - on initial playback he didn't think it was that noticeable.

Dubbing (foreign language) undoubtedly leads to "lost in translation" - having English subtitled many of the 1969 Paul Temple episodes (only available in German) it is clear that what they are saying in English in the picture (lip reading) is only approximately or "best interpreted" in German. Switching it back to English in order to create English subtitles, there undoubtedly has to be some further loss, but wherever possible I have used a lip read where available to show the original. Some of the most interesting bits have been idioms - Paul Temple was of course around 1969-1971, but some of the German idioms used in there are now almost 50 years old, so not part of the everyday language at all anymore.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:49 pm
by Mark
That' often the excuse, isn't it, not the right voice for the character, but when you know the actors voice, it does sound odd.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:59 am
by Simon36
This is interesting. There was a thread some time back entitled “who was that voice?”, when we were all trying to identify the ubiquitous voice from the Seventies, a very forced and over-enthusiastic posh accent that was usually wildly at odds with the on-screen expression. We never managed to identify it. Off the top of my head, the best example I can think of is that she dubbed Caroline Munro in The New Avengers episode Angels of Death. I’d still love to know who it was.

The 1979 US animated film of The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe has a British version with a much more Narnia-sounding cast, but it’s exasperating trying to identify all of the actors. The end credits list the US actors instead and so do all the mentions online, or sometimes a mixture of both. Two of the four leads I simply cannot identify.

It’s strange how prominent dubbing was in the 70s, particularly of Women. It doesn’t seem to happen at all now except for foreign-language versions. When The Long Good Friday was released, Bob Hoskins was dubbed by David Daker with a hint of Brummie, supposedly so the Americans could more easily understand him, and Hoskins threatened to sue, saying that the worst thing you can do to an actor is remove his own voice. It seemed surprising since it had been going on for years!

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:41 am
by Brian F
In the Strange Report episode Kidnap - "Whose Pretty Girl Are You", by the acoustics of her voice compared with others in the same scene Sally Geeson seems dubbed, but by herself. Perhaps after production they wanted her to have a more American accent so they had her re-perform her lines.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:59 am
by Mark T
I know he's been mentioned before but the most recognisable & ubiquitous voice to me that was all over the airwaves in the 1970s & '80s was David de Keyser - certainly used for alot of foreign shows/films in English...

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:33 pm
by Mark
Simon36 wrote:This is interesting. There was a thread some time back entitled “who was that voice?”, when we were all trying to identify the ubiquitous voice from the Seventies, a very forced and over-enthusiastic posh accent that was usually wildly at odds with the on-screen expression. We never managed to identify it. Off the top of my head, the best example I can think of is that she dubbed Caroline Munro in The New Avengers episode Angels of Death. I’d still love to know who it was.

The 1979 US animated film of The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe has a British version with a much more Narnia-sounding cast, but it’s exasperating trying to identify all of the actors. The end credits list the US actors instead and so do all the mentions online, or sometimes a mixture of both. Two of the four leads I simply cannot identify.

It’s strange how prominent dubbing was in the 70s, particularly of Women. It doesn’t seem to happen at all now except for foreign-language versions. When The Long Good Friday was released, Bob Hoskins was dubbed by David Daker with a hint of Brummie, supposedly so the Americans could more easily understand him, and Hoskins threatened to sue, saying that the worst thing you can do to an actor is remove his own voice. It seemed surprising since it had been going on for years!
I must dig it out and have a listen, but Munro's voice may have been dubbed by someone from the same episode, possibly Lindsay Duncan or Annabel Lytton.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:37 pm
by Mark
Brian F wrote:In the Strange Report episode Kidnap - "Whose Pretty Girl Are You", by the acoustics of her voice compared with others in the same scene Sally Geeson seems dubbed, but by herself. Perhaps after production they wanted her to have a more American accent so they had her re-perform her lines.
That's another one I haven't seen for ages, but that certainly sounds a likely reason.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:43 pm
by Mark
Mark T wrote:I know he's been mentioned before but the most recognisable & ubiquitous voice to me that was all over the airwaves in the 1970s & '80s was David de Keyser - certainly used for alot of foreign shows/films in English...
Yes, he was one of the big voice artists, certainly, very familiar on-screen as well, he was in "The New Avengers" episode "Faces", but also did some voice work in the series French two-parter ( alongside Frank Duncan) for the Russian soldiers.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:49 am
by brigham
I suppose the most extreme example of dubbing is Greenaway's 'Prospero's Books'.
Gielgud dubs ALL the voices, possibly even his own.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:03 am
by David Plaice
Mark T wrote:I know he's been mentioned before but the most recognisable & ubiquitous voice to me that was all over the airwaves in the 1970s & '80s was David de Keyser - certainly used for alot of foreign shows/films in English...
In the 1960s his was the "Anadin voice" to me, and seemed ubiquitous. It was many years before I learnt his name.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:43 pm
by Mark
David Plaice wrote:
Mark T wrote:I know he's been mentioned before but the most recognisable & ubiquitous voice to me that was all over the airwaves in the 1970s & '80s was David de Keyser - certainly used for alot of foreign shows/films in English...
In the 1960s his was the "Anadin voice" to me, and seemed ubiquitous. It was many years before I learnt his name.
Oh yes, so it was, I can hear him saying it now, was watching an ad for Fairy soap with the soft and gentle tones of Joss Ackland.

On tonight's "Persuaders", "Nuisance Value", sounded like Viviane Ventura was dubbed throughout.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:44 pm
by Mark
On last Thursday's episode of "The Human Jungle", Donald Pickering appeared and was clearly dubbed.

That's very odd indeed ,as he had such a good rich sonorous voice, can't think why they did that.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:03 pm
by fatcat
Mark wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:43 pm
.

On tonight's "Persuaders", "Nuisance Value", sounded like Viviane Ventura was dubbed throughout.
That night I was going to give Dr.Who another go, but it started with another school teacher lecture telling us how many people were on Earth..really? we didn't know that yawn!
So I turned on the Persuaders and snuggled up to a very familiar, warm and happy place with gorgeous girls...I thought that was Viv's voice though?


.

Re: The weird world of dubbing

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:55 pm
by David Boothroyd
Speaking of dubbing, a well known organisation which recovers classic television programmes has just uploaded an interesting piece from Thames TV 40 years ago to a well known video sharing website. In which the epilogue is read by the king of the dubbers Robert Rietty, as himself, in his usual voice - which is surprisingly unaccented.