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Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:37 pm
by brigham
James Whale's 'Bride of Frankenstein' is generally more highly regarded than his earlier 'Frankenstein', even by Whale himself.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:56 pm
by Mark
TV wise, only the aforementioned "WHTTLL", "The New Avengers" and "Grace and Favour" as far as I'm concerned.

As for the "Crossroads" revival, at least they had the decency to end it as if it had all been a (nasty) dream!, so it defaults back to 88.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:39 pm
by Juswuh
Spiny Norman wrote:To reverse the question: Are there actually any good comeback revivals?
Twin Peaks 2017, a massive addition to the show's legacy.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:41 pm
by Juswuh
Also the best of New Who was as good as the show's ever been, hard as it might be to recall that after years of Steven Moffat.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:01 pm
by Spiny Norman
brigham wrote:James Whale's 'Bride of Frankenstein' is generally more highly regarded than his earlier 'Frankenstein', even by Whale himself.
Well movie-wise, it isn't so difficult to find a handful of examples, like Empire strikes back. Generally the ones made within a limited time after the first one.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:45 pm
by magpie55
Yes, the nostalgia angle in "Whatever" was a very attractive and relatable idea, the social changes that happened while Terry was away, and the threat he poses to the settled Bob, tempting him back to the old ways.

One of my favourite scenes is in "Moving On", Bob driving Terry around and pointing out all their old haunts, now gone, very powerful.

"The Go-Go . Gone?...............................................................…"

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:02 pm
by Paul Hayes
I often think Doctor Who produced an absolutely fantastic, heartbreaking last-ever episode in 1969... The only problem was they have since spoiled it by continuing to make the bloody show for another 50 years...

(Just my little joke - I love all Doctor Who, but I do think that would have worked as a last-ever episode!)

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:22 pm
by Mark
magpie55 wrote:Yes, the nostalgia angle in "Whatever" was a very attractive and relatable idea, the social changes that happened while Terry was away, and the threat he poses to the settled Bob, tempting him back to the old ways.

One of my favourite scenes is in "Moving On", Bob driving Terry around and pointing out all their old haunts, now gone, very powerful.

"The Go-Go . Gone?...............................................................…"
Great line, that!

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:30 pm
by Mark
Paul Hayes wrote:I often think Doctor Who produced an absolutely fantastic, heartbreaking last-ever episode in 1969... The only problem was they have since spoiled it by continuing to make the bloody show for another 50 years...

(Just my little joke - I love all Doctor Who, but I do think that would have worked as a last-ever episode!)
It almost gave the impression of being the last one ( although it was known it was coming back) but it certainly wrapped up the 60's and B/W era.

"Till Death" ATV, has been announced for DVD, following on from the BBC series, a few years earlier, not so good and minus an audience ( the only bit I remember as really funny was the shot of Alf and Elsie On Bike and Sidecar going so slowly they were overtaken by a woman pushing a pram.

The BBC's revival, "In Sickness" was better, but still not up there with the original.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:29 am
by Focus II
Some programmes that were made in B&W that continued into the colour era could also be mentioned. Personally speaking, I believe Steptoe and Son, Callan and The Saint had well past their peak by the time colour episodes were made.

Unfortunately with the general "Colour only" policy from most broadcasters it's these episodes that are generally shown today.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:52 pm
by Mark
"Saint" and "Callan" were really continuous rather than revivals , but the ATV "Callan" special wasn't up to the original though

The Colour "Saint" ones were great, but the B/W ones were better.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:23 pm
by doubleM
Personally I didn't think the Euston Films revivals of both 'Special Branch' or 'Van Der Valk' were upto the standard of the earlier Thames TV videotaped series versions despite being revived within a few years of the originals.

I personally wouldn't make a distinction between series that went into colour from black and white in the late 60s with basically the same cast and production team and without a significant break in production as being revivals or comebacks, certainly 'Callan' falls into this category and 'Public Eye' (and indeed videotaped 'Special Branch').

With Steptoe and Till Death Us Do Part (Not ATV's 'Til Death' of 'In Sickness'), there were several years break between b/w and colour, so they could be argued as revivals.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:47 pm
by Mark
doubleM wrote:Personally I didn't think the Euston Films revivals of both 'Special Branch' or 'Van Der Valk' were upto the standard of the earlier Thames TV videotaped series versions despite being revived within a few years of the originals.
I much prefer the VT originals as well, and although there wasn't much of a gap, they were hugely different because of being VT and then film.

The VT versions were typically 'Chatty', dialogue driven and Play like, and writing for film is usually different, more action driven and faster paced.

Just look at the huge difference between the first Filmed series of "Ghost Squad" and the subsequent VT series, also "The Avengers" VT and film series.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:34 am
by doubleM
Mark wrote: The VT versions were typically 'Chatty', dialogue driven and Play like, and writing for film is usually different, more action driven and faster paced.
Indeed. And the case that 'Special Branch' division would deal with would be all about 'discussions in offices' and strategy and planning rather than the 'Flying Squad' tearing about London to a particular major incident. The latter is suited to on-the-fly location filming and that's why the Euston style was so appropriate to 'The Sweeney' but not at all to 'Special Branch' (the programme not the police division).

I've heard many say post 'The Sweeney' that all police shows should be shot like that, but in reality VT was far better suited to the cases of say 'The Gentle Touch' of 'Juliet Bravo' than filming.

By the time 'The Bill' arrived, location VT recording techniques had improved to the extent that the running around scenes featured there were now practical to video location recording but the programme (at least in the earlier days when it concentrated at lot on low level street crime) benefitted by the 'natural' look of video.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:28 pm
by Mark
Yes, spot on with shows like "Gentle Touch" and "Juliet Bravo", and in reverse, you can't imagine "The Sweeney" done on tape, wouldn't have worked at all!

"The Sandbaggers" is another one that would not have suited film.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:39 am
by Ian Fryer
Mark wrote:Yes, spot on with shows like "Gentle Touch" and "Juliet Bravo", and in reverse, you can't imagine "The Sweeney" done on tape, wouldn't have worked at all!

"The Sandbaggers" is another one that would not have suited film.
The Sandbaggers had the best of both worlds, with location filming on film (albeit the locations tended to be in the Leeds area!) and the special intensity of live performance that studio VT recordings gave.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:37 pm
by Mark
Ian Fryer wrote:
Mark wrote:Yes, spot on with shows like "Gentle Touch" and "Juliet Bravo", and in reverse, you can't imagine "The Sweeney" done on tape, wouldn't have worked at all!

"The Sandbaggers" is another one that would not have suited film.
The Sandbaggers had the best of both worlds, with location filming on film (albeit the locations tended to be in the Leeds area!) and the special intensity of live performance that studio VT recordings gave.
VT/Film for interiors/exteriors is 'Proper TV' IMO, although "Sandbaggers" wouldn't have worked as all film, as you say, it's HQ scenes were the basis of the series.

One of the worst revivals was neither Drama nor Comedy, it was "Ask The Family" with Dick and Dom, possibly the finest example of dumbed down TV, ludicrously easy questions, but if someone got one wrong they had to wear an ass's head ( even Dick and Dom seemed embarrassed by it).

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:32 pm
by SgtPepper
Not sure if this counts or has been mentioned already, but it’s New Years Eve and you’re only young once.
Auf Wiedersehen Pet came back after a gap of several years for two series and some specials and it was pants.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:10 am
by Focus II
To be fair on Special Branch the Euston series featured different characters, so a very different programme to the one that started in 1969.

Bit of deja vu as well as I absolutely love the first 1969 series but thought the 1970 one was dreadful.

I felt much the same about the first and second Euston films series!

As for Van Der Valk I personally thought it was better suited to an Euston Films version. I found the filmed locations in Amsterdam with the VT studio settings, probably done in Teddington a little tiresome.

I understand it was re-vamped by Euston as Alfred Burke turned down a filmed version of Public Eye. Now that would've looked strange, just as if The Sweeney was made on VT.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:52 pm
by Ian Fryer
I've been working through Special Branch and to be honest have found both its iterations to be something of a disappointment. The VT series isn't in the same league as Callan or Public Eye, while the Euston version takes forever to get going. The Euston episodes that work best are the ones that go into 'kick bollock and run' mode such as There's Something About a Soldier, starring Garfield Morgan as a ruthless mercenary.

Ultimately, I find that Special Branch struggles to decide whether it's a cop show or a spy show, something which The Professionals handled much better from its second series onwards.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:12 am
by Mark
I really like the VT "Special Branch", but I agree they are not quite up there with "Callan" and Public Eye".

Derren Nesbitt was the highlight, for me, but they were generally good stories.

As much as I like George Sewell in all he did, his character in the film series of "SB", was too unlikeable, the cynical hard nosed type.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:58 am
by Focus II
Opinions certainly differ. As much as I like Public Eye and the B&W Callan episodes I thought the first series of Special Branch was something very special.

I was up well into the early hours watching episodes back to back I enjoyed it that much. We got to know the characters and the storylines were superb. Can watch it repeatedly without getting bored with it.

That 1969 series is probably my favourite programme of all time. My avatar is a still taken from one of the colour episodes by the way.

In contrast I thought series 2 was rubbish. I even got rid of the DVD set.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:27 pm
by Mark
I certainly rate the VT series very highly, but enjoyed both of them, series 2 continued some of the storylines and characters from the first with the return of Sandra Bryant's character.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:42 pm
by doubleM
Mark wrote:I certainly rate the VT series very highly, but enjoyed both of them, series 2 continued some of the storylines and characters from the first with the return of Sandra Bryant's character.
I'd say series 2 was very much the continuation of the latter colour episodes of series 1.

The b/w stories until Wensley Pithey left were of a different tone, (and title sequence) and a bigger change was evident with the start the colour stories without Pithey (I think the producer changed at that point from Reginald Collin who went back to the first colour 'Callan' series to Robert Love), rather than between series 1 and 2. Even then there was plenty of overlap/stylistic and story continuity throughout the VT era.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:56 pm
by Mark
Forgot about Pithey leaving, series 2 did seem very much a continuation, right up to the last episode.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:12 pm
by Ian Fryer
doubleM wrote:
Mark wrote:I certainly rate the VT series very highly, but enjoyed both of them, series 2 continued some of the storylines and characters from the first with the return of Sandra Bryant's character.
I'd say series 2 was very much the continuation of the latter colour episodes of series 1.

The b/w stories until Wensley Pithey left were of a different tone, (and title sequence) and a bigger change was evident with the start the colour stories without Pithey (I think the producer changed at that point from Reginald Collin who went back to the first colour 'Callan' series to Robert Love), rather than between series 1 and 2. Even then there was plenty of overlap/stylistic and story continuity throughout the VT era.
Derren Nesbitt has often stated that Special Branch was actually cancelled part way through series one, then unexpectedly revived which would explain the mid-season change.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:54 pm
by Mark
A thread on the old forum suggests there wasn't a break during recording of the first series, and the first two episodes were 6th and 9th in recording order.

Here

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:52 am
by jno
Hawaii Five O - I actually like the remake and for me it is up there with the original which has many dud episodes. Lethal Weapon - again, I might be on my own here but I like the TV series remake just as much, if not more than the films.

Callan - agree with the above that 'Wet Job' was a massive disappointment.
Dr Who - for me it ended in 1989.

As for Fawlty Towers, the weak ones for me are 'The Wedding Party' and 'The Anniversary'

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:17 am
by paul.austin
Tom Baker was the last real Doctor. Hinchliffe, Letts, Lambert et al wipe the floor with Chinball, Muppet, The Fallen One and JN-T.

Re: Shows ruined by revival/comeback

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:31 am
by spflog1
paul.austin wrote:Tom Baker was the last real Doctor. Hinchliffe, Letts, Lambert et al wipe the floor with Chinball, Muppet, The Fallen One and JN-T.
Tom Baker's era under Hinchliffe is rightfully celebrated as easily one of the series' high points. His following years were not to the same standard though, being no better or worse than any other actor's in the role. The series has always been of variable quality and tends to go through phases, which do certainly seem more linked to the producer than the lead actor. That's not how the general viewing public perceives it of course!