1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

Post by Simon Coward »

fatcat wrote:just a thanks for the amazing afternoon run lists you provided on the old thread.
I'm glad they're still useful (in the loosest sense of the word), and thanks to John for reviving some interest in them.
fatcat wrote:Not sure if it was always the case but IIRC Douglas Fairbanks presents use to appear without Douglas Fairbanks introducing ie. as a stand-alone film.. which, having seen some US versions was perhaps because the intro was sponsor laden?
That would make sense, especially as they were often broadcast in a 25-minute slot. When Thames broadcast them I think they generally were generally billed under the umbrella title Matinee.
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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Simon36 wrote:There was a similar season in 1982 entitled BEST OF BRITISH; can’t remember what the occasion was though! UPSTAIRS DOWNSTAIRS episode GUEST OF HONOUR and SWEENEY episode VISITING FIREMAN (bizarre choice) showed up.
Also The Prisoner: The Girl Who Was Death, which made for a weird first view of the series for me.
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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Nick Cooper 625 wrote:
Simon36 wrote:There was a similar season in 1982 entitled BEST OF BRITISH; can’t remember what the occasion was though! UPSTAIRS DOWNSTAIRS episode GUEST OF HONOUR and SWEENEY episode VISITING FIREMAN (bizarre choice) showed up.
Also The Prisoner: The Girl Who Was Death, which made for a weird first view of the series for me.
Didn’t Channel 4’s 1983/84 repeat run of THE PRISONER show them mostly in a bizarre order too?

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Simon36 wrote:Didn’t Channel 4’s 1983/84 repeat run of THE PRISONER show them mostly in a bizarre order too?
Indeed it did (original position in brackets for those less familiar with the series):

19/09/1983 Arrival (1)
26/09/1983 Many Happy Returns (7)
03/10/1983 A. B. and C. (3)
10/10/1983 Free For All (4)
17/10/1983 The Schizoid Man (5)
24/10/1983 Checkmate (9)
31/10/1983 The Chimes of Big Ben (2)
07/11/1983 The General (6)
14/11/1983 It's Your Funeral (11)
21/11/1983 Hammer Into Anvil (10)
28/11/1983 A Change of Mind (12)
05/12/1983 Dance of the Dead (8)
12/12/1983 Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling (13)
19/12/1983 The Girl Who Was Death (15)
02/01/1984 Living in Harmony (14)
09/01/1984 Once Upon A Time (16)
16/01/1984 Fall Out (17)

Originally they had split the two part "Once Upon a Time" / "Fall Out" by inserting "Living in Harmony" between them, but they did switch OUAT and LiH before broadcast.
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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Simon Coward wrote:
Simon36 wrote:Didn’t Channel 4’s 1983/84 repeat run of THE PRISONER show them mostly in a bizarre order too?
Indeed it did (original position in brackets for those less familiar with the series):

19/09/1983 Arrival (1)
26/09/1983 Many Happy Returns (7)
03/10/1983 A. B. and C. (3)
10/10/1983 Free For All (4)
17/10/1983 The Schizoid Man (5)
24/10/1983 Checkmate (9)
31/10/1983 The Chimes of Big Ben (2)
07/11/1983 The General (6)
14/11/1983 It's Your Funeral (11)
21/11/1983 Hammer Into Anvil (10)
28/11/1983 A Change of Mind (12)
05/12/1983 Dance of the Dead (8)
12/12/1983 Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling (13)
19/12/1983 The Girl Who Was Death (15)
02/01/1984 Living in Harmony (14)
09/01/1984 Once Upon A Time (16)
16/01/1984 Fall Out (17)

Originally they had split the two part "Once Upon a Time" / "Fall Out" by inserting "Living in Harmony" between them, but they did switch OUAT and LiH before broadcast.
I’m no expert on THE PRISONER but that is truly bizarre. Was there any reason for them being so jumbled up?

The early years of C4 were quite a treasureland. Presumably it was a way of attracting viewers to the channel. From memory, British TV repeats included:

Upstairs Downstairs
Budgie
Bouquet of Barbed Wire
Callan
The Avengers

I’m sure there must have been lots more but that’s all I can recall just now apart from a steady showing of one-offs; I recall A SENSE OF FREEDOM having a C4 repeat, and later, bizarrely, PENDA’S FEN!

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Simon36 wrote:I’m sure there must have been lots more but that’s all I can recall just now
A Family At War and the 1987 Armchair Theatre season spring to mind.

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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There was a Philip Mackie season too, including a complete repeat of The Organization, the play The Naked Civil Servant and single editions from Maupassant and Saki.

The channel also repeated The Human Jungle in its entirety as well as the half-hour Danger Mans.
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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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At least they showed "Fall Out" last, although the print they had, featured the bars closing sequence at the end, for some reason.

Channel 4 had a fifties night on Boxing day 1982, which included "Arthur Haynes", "Oh Boy", "The Larkins" and an "Armchair Theatre".

In 84, they had "The Worker", "Beat City" and the first episode of "The Power Game".

The following Christmas saw a great line up with a 1966 "Morecambe And Wise", "George And The Dragon", the Forsyth/Wisdom "Palladium" show and "At Last The 1948 Show".

C4 also had a complete run of "Man About The House".

Taped most of these at the time.
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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Which reminds me, The Power Game was another show given a repeat by C4 - in this case, just the first series.
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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Ch4 showed The Prisoner in the routine order it was always shown IIRC
which obviously was still not to the satisfaction to some of the prisoner aficionados.
If anyone was still with Ch4 when it closed down(they had just shown a rare 'British' western) the night of Fall Out instead of the usual goodnight and exploding 4 they said goodnight with a prisoner exploding penny farthing caption...what a nice gesture I thought... once again IIRC.

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

Post by yellowtriumph »

Simon Coward wrote:There was a Philip Mackie season too, including a complete repeat of The Organization, the play The Naked Civil Servant and single editions from Maupassant and Saki.

The channel also repeated The Human Jungle in its entirety as well as the half-hour Danger Mans.
I recorded this C4 transmission of "The Organization'. I still have it.

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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fatcat wrote:Ch4 showed The Prisoner in the routine order it was always shown IIRC
which obviously was still not to the satisfaction to some of the prisoner aficionados.
They showed the series in the order in which it was usually shown in the UK when they repeated it in 1992/93 but as far as I'm aware no other broadcaster has ever emulated the order of the episodes in their 1983/84 broadcast.
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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Simon Coward wrote:
fatcat wrote:Ch4 showed The Prisoner in the routine order it was always shown IIRC
which obviously was still not to the satisfaction to some of the prisoner aficionados.
They showed the series in the order in which it was usually shown in the UK when they repeated it in 1992/93 but as far as I'm aware no other broadcaster has ever emulated the order of the episodes in their 1983/84 broadcast.
Ah yes see what you mean, I wasn't paying attention in those days only visiting it occasionally, hadn't realised Big Ben had been shown way down the weeks when it's usual home was as Ep 2 (60s/70s)

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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fatcat wrote:Ah yes see what you mean, I wasn't paying attention in those days only visiting it occasionally, hadn't realised Big Ben had been shown way down the weeks when it's usual home was as Ep 2 (60s/70s)
The order that Channel 4 put them out in 1983/84 is similar to a sequence which I've seen referred to as "the ITC filing order" or "the ITC warehouse order".

I'm sure I've seen that order listed in multiple places but the first I could lay my hands on was Max Hora's "The Prisoner of Portmeirion". For the first twelve weeks it matches C4's 83/84 exactly, other than it swaps the positions of "Free For All" and "The Schizoid Man". After that point, though, the two orders diverge, and even the warehouse order doesn't separate "Once Upon a Time" and Fall Out" as per C4's original plan. So where they got that idea from...
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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Halliwell’s TV Guide claims that C4 showed one episode out of sequence (wouldn’t that automatically make it two episodes out of sequence?) causing uproar among fans. I wonder if this is simply garbled nonsense, or that it’s referring to the swapping of FREE FOR ALL and SCHIZOID MAN.

Hilariously, the book then lists the episodes in a truly bizarre order, with ONCE UPON A TIME as part one and ARRIVAL at sixteen!

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Simon36 wrote:Halliwell’s TV Guide claims that C4 showed one episode out of sequence (wouldn’t that automatically make it two episodes out of sequence?)
I suppose that depends on whether you're looking at order or position. If you showed "Fall Out" first you still show 16 episodes in the correct sequence ("Arrival" through to "Once Upon a Time") but none of them in the right position.
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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Simon Coward wrote:
Simon36 wrote:Halliwell’s TV Guide claims that C4 showed one episode out of sequence (wouldn’t that automatically make it two episodes out of sequence?)
I suppose that depends on whether you're looking at order or position. If you showed "Fall Out" first you still show 16 episodes in the correct sequence ("Arrival" through to "Once Upon a Time") but none of them in the right position.
(Sir Bernard Woolley recalls...)

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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Perhaps Ch4 showed them in an order that would (they hoped) keep the interest of someone new to the series..leaving the far-out ones until the end ..for example showing 'Dance of the Dead' between the conventional episodes may have lost viewers originally to the rest of the series as viewers lost patience with it...while those in for the long haul were quite happy to see them later.

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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brigham wrote:
Simon Coward wrote:
Simon36 wrote:Halliwell’s TV Guide claims that C4 showed one episode out of sequence (wouldn’t that automatically make it two episodes out of sequence?)
I suppose that depends on whether you're looking at order or position. If you showed "Fall Out" first you still show 16 episodes in the correct sequence ("Arrival" through to "Once Upon a Time") but none of them in the right position.
(Sir Bernard Woolley recalls...)
Brilliant!
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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

Post by ian b »

If we are straying into "out of time" repeats of longer runs of the same programme, then there there's the first series of THE ONEDIN LINE and seemingly randomly selected episodes of THE LIVER BIRDS when BBC 1 began a daytime schedule in 1986.

The first series of POLDARK turned up on BBC 2 the following year, but despite seemingly being very popular the second series remained stubbornly stuck in the archives.

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

Post by Mark »

Wasn't there a limit at that time, about how many repeats they were allowed to show a year, I'm sure that was the case.
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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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I think the figure may have been as low as 52 out-of-time (over two years old) repeats of programmes involving Equity members permitted per channel per year at one point. The amount allowed was renegotiated upwards significantly when daytime programming came to BBC1 in 1986, and archive repeats have never carried quite the same scarcity value since then.

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

Post by Mark »

Ah right, thought so, there was quite a few in 86 with those afternoon repeats and all the 50th ones as well.

As well as the programme repeats, they even threw in a few Interlude films as well.
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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

Post by RobinCarmody »

Few things:

LWT's summer 1989 repeats also included an episode of The Adventures of Black Beauty - on Saturday 29th July, oddly enough just as the Flambards episode was on Yorkshire. I can understand that not being remembered in the same way, though, because they'd only just shown the whole run throughout the network (Nov 1986 - Feb 1988) and were planning to show it again in the summer of 1990 but had to drop it at the last minute because of legal wrangles with Equity. In the summer of 1989 they also began showing the third series of Follyfoot but never completed it - the sixth episode was the last shown, the weekend before the corporate look and David Dundas jingle arrived in the London area, where I was - so I never saw that incredibly, impossibly bleak ending at the time.

Interesting that, nearly twenty years after the age of majority was lowered, 21st anniversaries were still a thing - not only those ITV companies but also Radio 1 in 1988. Obviously they had an extra reason to do the latter as it coincided with the first FM transmitter launches outside London, but they did that whole Radio Show (which I went to) at Earl's Court for the 21st anniversary of the launch of Radio 1 and the numbered relaunch of the pre-existing stations, and the 20th anniversary was low-key. Nowadays the concept of the 21st anniversary has completely disappeared because fewer and fewer people can remember when that was the age of majority.

Some of the Thames Monday night transmissions were taken by more regions than previously suggested - apart from the HTV transmissions at a different time, The Times has the Mavericks transmissions being taken, at the same time as in the London area, by Central (confirmed also by the Sandwell Evening Mail), Scottish (confirmed also by the Glasgow Herald), Ulster (confirmed also by the Dublin Evening Herald and Irish Independent), Anglia, TSW, TVS and Channel (the Callan one at least is listed for Border but, going by the Glasgow Herald and indeed subsequent Times listings, I think that is a mistake). Yorkshire showed an episode of their own Airline at 9pm on 24th July.

Thames also had a series of repeats called The Prize Winners (specifically, winners of the Italia prize - the Naked Civil Servant transmission was part of this, and at the same time as that on 3rd August, Yorkshire's transmission of a 1977 Galton and Simpson Playhouse also was taken by Tyne Tees, Ulster, Border, TVS, Channel and Grampian) that exhaustingly hot summer (which I think is captured particularly well - it's maybe the last "16mm" summer - in the Children's Film Unit's Doombeach, which can be seen in the usual place partially thanks to me) - these were introduced by Jeremy Isaacs; on 8th August they showed We Was All One, a 1972 documentary about people who lived near the Old Kent Road. At the same time (after News at Ten), Yorkshire's repeat of Too Long a Winter also was taken by Tyne Tees, Border and HTV, Anglia took presumably the same episode of The Gentle Touch which LWT had shown and Granada presumably the same episode of The Sweeney shown on Thames. They continued with Benjamin Britten's St Nicolas Cantata on 15th August (Anglia had Within These Walls, Tyne Tees Public Eye and Yorkshire Whicker's World California), and on 22nd August they showed the Derry documentary Creggan (Anglia had Budgie, Border Public Eye, Tyne Tees Van der Valk and Yorkshire Kitty - Return to Auschwitz). Finally, on 29th August they showed the final part of The World at War (Anglia, TVS and Channel had Whicker's World, Granada Van der Valk and Yorkshire, Tyne Tees and Border had Children of Eskdale). And then it was autumn, and suddenly we were a bit closer to today.

Looking back at these, there is definitely a sense that they were saying goodbye - Sky had got started from Astra and they must have known that this sort of thing would no longer be affordable or sustainable, so there is a whiff of ruefulness and melancholy about the whole thing, even more so about the huge boom in TV's interest in its own past which took off in 1991/92 - as with classical Hollywood in the 1960s (and I wonder if American Anglophiles might not play the part French critics played in that case, in having given it the artistic cred it was often denied by the old establishment in its own country), classical British television started to be taken seriously as capital-a Art and capital-h History just as it was disappearing.

And, of course, there is always a shadow - the Leeds child molester took part in Yorkshire's 21st anniversary coverage, to make it worse just before the Flambards episode was shown.

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

Post by RobinCarmody »

Post-NaT on 25th July, Yorkshire had something called Images of Yorkshire which I assume was some sort of retrospective - alas, there are no local papers available from that period with YTV as the main listings, only the Newcastle Evening Chronicle which has brief variations. That being said, the British Newspaper Archive is a lot better on contemporary history than it was when I first subscribed in March 2018.

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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The Mavericks season was also shown in the same slot on Grampian.

I agree with Robin that looking back there was a sense of saying goodbye. Certainly the amount of repeat runs seems to pretty much end with the end of the 80s, although I was surprised to see another prime time repeat of The Sweeney on ITV in 1990. This may have actually been to capitalise on John Thaw’s popularity soaring again with Morse at the time, but it did feel quite odd suddenly to have a repeat run in such a prestigious slot that wasn’t tied into an anniversary or tribute. It may well have been the last time ITV ran a series more than a decade old in prime time. I think in the end they showed about half a dozen episodes.

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

Post by ian b »

It was William Lucas who managed to abort the BLACK BEAUTY repeats, though wasn’t it settled by the intervention of Equity and more money exchanging hands?

The first six (?) episode of CATWEAZLE did the rounds of the regions in the very early 80s, but never completed the first series.

The first 26 colour episodes of BLESS THIS HOUSE were cleared for an evening run in the late 80s, though IIRC most regions only took the first thirteen.

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

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CATWEAZLE did get a full run on LWT in the 80s... that’s where I first saw it!

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

Post by ian b »

Well, in that case, at least HTV and Central only took the opening episodes.

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Re: 1989 Thames/ Yorkshire/ LWT repeat seasons

Post by stearn »

Wouldn't a major factor for repeat runs fizzling out at the end of the 80s be due to the franchise rounds (hardly going to go in your favour if all you do is chuck our repeats of the glory days) and then, after the fallout from those, Thames and the BBC using satellite to capitalise on their archives through UKGold. You could argue that the amount of archive repeats was substantially more once the satellite and cable channels came along, and would cater for those who really wanted to see the programmes if they put their money where their mouths were. I certainly got Sky as soon as I could to receive UKGold.

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