More popular outside their region of production

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Brock
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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by Brock »

stearn wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:51 pm
Getting back to the plot, it would appear that there were actually very few regional programmes (made by a region with their own audience primarily in mind) that then filtered out, as we have only come up with a handful.
Oh, I think there were quite a few others (sorry, I got distracted onto other matters there). One that springs to mind is Mr & Mrs, which was originally a regional programme for TWW and subsequently HTV, then turned into a strange "Box and Cox" affair where series alternated between HTV and Border, then finally became a Border-only production. I don't think the HTV version was ever fully networked, but after Border took it over full-time it developed into a network programme. I can't remember the full details though.

(UK Game Shows says that Anglia also made a series in 1969, but I've no knowledge of that.)

Also STV's Now You See It, which according to UK Game Shows started as a regional programme in 1981 and migrated to the network in 1985.

Was Southern's Out of Town another one? Not sure.

It occasionally happened on the BBC as well. The BBC South children's series Hey Look That's Me! started in 1976 and moved to the network in 1980.

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stearn
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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by stearn »

Anglia showed a series of Mr & Mrs starting in October 1969 (at 8pm), but Thames/LWT were showing Strange Report from 7.30pm. I don't have an Anglia edition of TVT from that time to see who the production company were. Border were showing it the same day, but half hour earlier, and Harlech had finished a run the week before.

There were quite a few BBC regional fillers that were promoted to network. Top Gear is the first to come to mind (Midland)

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by Ian Wegg »

Brock wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:21 pm
Was Southern's Out of Town another one? Not sure.
No, several ITV regions took Out of Town, usually showing it on Sunday afternoons, but it was never networked. In its own region it had a Friday evening slot.

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by Juswuh »

Russell Harty was on LWT before he was networked, I think. Certainly I remember reading in the NME about musicians (maybe the Who?) being on his show and having no idea who he was.

And let’s not forget that Bill Grundy’s interview with the Sex Pistols was only broadcast in the London area. If it had been confined to Borders (or even Granada) the course of pop history might have been different.

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by Brock »

Juswuh wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:53 pm
Russell Harty was on LWT before he was networked, I think.
Was he ever networked on ITV? I thought he only became nationally known when he moved to the BBC.

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by doubleM »

Brock wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:59 pm
Juswuh wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:53 pm
Russell Harty was on LWT before he was networked, I think.
Was he ever networked on ITV? I thought he only became nationally known when he moved to the BBC.
Although I don't think Russell Harty Plus was ever *fully* networked, I believe some other ITV regions apart from LWT did take the programme at various stages of its existence.

As mentioned above Sale of the Century started out as an Anglia only show in the early 70s. By the mid part of the decade it was a very popular staple of ITV Saturday nights.
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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by Brock »

doubleM wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:34 pm
Although I don't think Russell Harty Plus was ever *fully* networked, I believe some other ITV regions apart from LWT did take the programme at various stages of its existence.
I certainly don't remember seeing it in the HTV West region (where I lived until 1978), although that might simply have been because I wasn't allowed to stay up late enough to watch it. But I do remember my grandfather asking why people on TV kept talking about Russell Harty when he didn't have a clue who he was.

It seems a little odd that LWT should choose a host from Lancashire for a programme that was mainly seen in London. On a similar note, I remember there was something of a fuss when An Audience with Jasper Carrott[*] was first shown in the LWT region only - why would a Brummie comedian be seen as a particular attraction for Londoners? (The Daily Mirror even wrote an article pleading with all the other regions to show it.)

[*]This was a series of six stand-up shows, unlike the later An Audience with... specials.

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by stearn »

The Jasper Carrott Audience with.. shows were early 1978 (Jan-Mar), but he had been on Radio 1 in Apr 1976 in Jasper Carrotts (My) Top Twelve, so presumably had other shows in the Midlands before and after this, but it was probably Funky Moped that gave him the national exposure in the Summer of 1975. What had LWT done to upset the other regions to prevent a network showing would be my question!

A quick trip to Wikipedia and it would appear that Michael Grade was the one who commissioned the pilot for a series (An Audience With...), liked it, and ordered another 5. Wasn't there a football tradition at LWT? Carrott seems to like the game - his first TV appearance on BBC Midlands was about 'The Golden Game' and he was a director of Birmingham City - that could have been the 'in', but there is nothing that might explain other regions not picking the series up. I might have some Midland TVTimes from this period, but will check newspapers a little later.

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by yellowtriumph »

Brock wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:11 pm
doubleM wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:34 pm
Although I don't think Russell Harty Plus was ever *fully* networked, I believe some other ITV regions apart from LWT did take the programme at various stages of its existence.
I certainly don't remember seeing it in the HTV West region (where I lived until 1978), although that might simply have been because I wasn't allowed to stay up late enough to watch it. But I do remember my grandfather asking why people on TV kept talking about Russell Harty when he didn't have a clue who he was.

It seems a little odd that LWT should choose a host from Lancashire for a programme that was mainly seen in London. On a similar note, I remember there was something of a fuss when An Audience with Jasper Carrott[*] was first shown in the LWT region only - why would a Brummie comedian be seen as a particular attraction for Londoners? (The Daily Mirror even wrote an article pleading with all the other regions to show it.)

[*]This was a series of six stand-up shows, unlike the later An Audience with... specials.
Perhaps he was chosen on his personal merit?

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by Brock »

yellowtriumph wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:38 pm
Perhaps he was chosen on his personal merit?
I'm quite sure he was! But it's difficult to imagine the reverse - Granada getting someone in from London to present a north-west regional programme. (This is what I meant about "London-centricity" earlier in the thread - the London companies treating their region as equivalent to the whole country.)

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by stearn »

Eamonn Andrews, Terry Wogan, Larry Grayson are others that spring to mind when Harty was mentioned. When a broadcaster is good at their job, does it matter where they come from?

I suspect some of the reasoning for the London companies picking up regional talent was because London had more job opportunities alongside (adverts, theatre). That's not to say the regions couldn't offer this, but it would certainly be a big reason for ATV having studios at Elstree despite being a Midland franchise.

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by Brock »

stearn wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:53 pm
Eamonn Andrews, Terry Wogan, Larry Grayson are others that spring to mind when Harty was mentioned. When a broadcaster is good at their job, does it matter where they come from?
Of course not, but none of them presented programmes in London only as far as I'm aware.

It just seems slightly perverse for a broadcaster to choose a presenter from a particular part of the country for a programme that won't be seen in that part of the country. Imagine if the BBC had decided not to show Parkinson in Yorkshire.
I suspect some of the reasoning for the London companies picking up regional talent was because London had more job opportunities alongside (adverts, theatre). That's not to say the regions couldn't offer this, but it would certainly be a big reason for ATV having studios at Elstree despite being a Midland franchise.
I thought it was a hangover from the days when ATV served London at weekends and the Midlands on weekdays. One thing I've learned from this forum is that prior to 1968 it was quite common for ITV companies to be based outside their region.

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by stearn »

Not ITV, I admit, but I was thinking of Grayson and the Generation Game, Wogan for, well, Wogan, and Andrews for This is Your Life, and all were London based, although further along their careers, and not, as you say, exclusively London.

The studio location, whilst a hangover, wasn't necessarily something they had to keep or dispose of as part of their franchise - obviously ATV saw Elstree as useful. Wasn't it discussed in a recent thread about the Army Game that production was transferred to London after a while - IIRC we pinpointed it exactly (here: http://www.the-mausoleum-club.org.uk/ph ... ell#p38069). Higher profile theatre work would certainly be more abundant in London, and it was very common, on radio at least, to hear that the star of the show was currently appearing in 'oops, where's me trousers' at the Whitehall Theatre. For some it would be film work as well - Ealing, Borehamwood etc.

I believe all the main advertising for the ITV regional companies was based in London - I vaguely remember reading that in an autobiography of one of the directors of Westward who may have later gone to TVS.

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by doubleM »

stearn wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:28 pm
The studio location, whilst a hangover, wasn't necessarily something they had to keep or dispose of as part of their franchise - obviously ATV saw Elstree as useful.
Specifically I believe for two very good reasons.

1. ATV Elstree had two very large studios (C and D) onsite, very handy for the type of big/spectacular programming with international appeal the company had become known for, and (possibly uniquely for British TV studio centres) also a considerably extensive backlot (the home of EastEnders since the BBC bought the site), a legacy of its National Film Studio days. (In comparison Thames at Teddington was a considerably more cramped setup in spite of similar cinematic antecedance)

2: (even more significantly) it's proximity to London was a far greater allure (and convenience) to attract high profile visiting transatlantic talent ... Danny Kaye, Bing Crosby, Julie Andrews, Burt Bacharach, Barbra Streisand ... and many others - than Birmingham would have been.
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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by stearn »

doubleM wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:40 pm
...than Birmingham would have been.
Didn't Telly Savalas love the place?

The BFI Channel has a clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87jKAP5-ht0

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by Richardr1 »

Eamonn Andrews did the regional Thames 6pm programme for a number of years.

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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by Simon Coward »

doubleM wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:34 pm
Although I don't think Russell Harty Plus was ever *fully* networked, I believe some other ITV regions apart from LWT did take the programme at various stages of its existence.
I remember being quite surprised when I discovered that Saturday Night People (with Harty, Janet Street-Porter and Clive James) in 1978 wasn't even close to being networked.
stearn wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:37 pm
The Jasper Carrott Audience with.. shows were early 1978 (Jan-Mar), but he had been on Radio 1 in Apr 1976 in Jasper Carrotts (My) Top Twelve, so presumably had other shows in the Midlands before and after this, but it was probably Funky Moped that gave him the national exposure in the Summer of 1975. What had LWT done to upset the other regions to prevent a network showing would be my question!

A quick trip to Wikipedia and it would appear that Michael Grade was the one who commissioned the pilot for a series (An Audience With...), liked it, and ordered another 5. Wasn't there a football tradition at LWT? Carrott seems to like the game - his first TV appearance on BBC Midlands was about 'The Golden Game' and he was a director of Birmingham City - that could have been the 'in', but there is nothing that might explain other regions not picking the series up. I might have some Midland TVTimes from this period, but will check newspapers a little later.
ATV took the series on Sunday nights between March and May 1978, though I think they may have only shown 5 of the 6.
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Re: More popular outside their region of production

Post by Brock »

Richardr1 wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:39 pm
Eamonn Andrews did the regional Thames 6pm programme for a number of years.
Sorry, I stand corrected. And I remember that this sort of thing happened on the BBC as well, with Sally Magnusson among the presenters of BBC1's London Plus in the mid-80s. So probably commoner than I first thought.

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