2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

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ArchiveTvfan43
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2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

Hello. I am new to this forum and I was wondering if any leads or rumours have come to light regarding missing episodes of the childrens fantasy series ACE OF WANDS I know it's been 11+ years since the dvd release I know there has been audio recordings that have surfaced a few years ago of series 2 episodes but is there any hope to finding one of the lost episodes or did Thames wipe the only copies of them?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

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stearn
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by stearn »

Any finds would be surely be announced by those involved as it is a popular series. You can keep an eye on Kaleidoscopes activities via their Facebook page, and the BFI hold Missing Believed Wiped events regularly.

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Mark »

Sadly nothing new at the moment, there's no info on any attempt at sales for the first two series.

A better chance, would be more audio turning up, fingers crossed.!
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ArchiveTvfan43
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

Better audio of seven serpents would be better as it sounds like someone had put a microphone from a reel to reel into a sock and sat it 2m from the TV. Picky I know but I can barely understand whats being said without the scripts.

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Mark »

Yes, it is the worst one, a shame that, and what happened to part one of "The Eye Of Ra"?
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ArchiveTvfan43
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

Possibly not recorded or recorded then lost. Worth mentioning is a absolutely brilliant music track created for the show called "lulli rides again" which was used in series 1 and 2 it has a great beat.

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Mark »

Yes, it's a great piece of music, from Andrew Bown and on the B-Side of the theme single, it was the only specially recorded incidental music, all the rest were library tracks.
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ArchiveTvfan43
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

Regarding the rumor seven serpents was possibly sold abroad and it was possibly in existence in the 80s. Has anything more came to light about this? We know it was repeated in the Thames region in 1973 so what happened to it after that? Wasn't it around 1972-73 that more tapes were kept for children's TV at Thames? Is it reasonable to suggest that maybe they weren't wiped and just dissappeared from the archives?

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

To clarify I'm talking about the seven serpents tapes possibly not being wiped, not the other tapes for the other stories. I heard kaleidoscope found an 18 sec clip from the first story in a documentary. Is there any way to view it publicly? I know trading isn't allowed but can you point me in the right direction as to where I can contact someone about viewing it? As the show is coming up on its 50th anniversary I feel as if it would be a nice gesture to release it along with the studio footage from the S3 story "sisters deadly" Although I understand if that's not possible due to rights Me and many other ace of wands fans would love to see this clip is its from the climax where tarot pulls out a gun and reveals himself as madame midnight is about to demonstrate the invention for the ambassadors from other countries who are bidding for it.

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

I have tried contacting kaleidoscope about it but no answer.

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doubleM
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by doubleM »

ArchiveTvfan43 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:02 pm
To clarify I'm talking about the seven serpents tapes possibly not being wiped, not the other tapes for the other stories. I heard kaleidoscope found an 18 sec clip from the first story in a documentary. Is there any way to view it publicly?
There's this route

http://www.kaleidoscopespecialcollections.co.uk/

though it's not cheap, and I can't see the dates (currently listed on the page) applying during the lock-down.
Click the 'view and download catalogue PDF' link from the above webpage and you can search for 'Ace of Wands' ... or indeed anything else.
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Mark »

ArchiveTvfan43 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:43 pm
Regarding the rumor seven serpents was possibly sold abroad and it was possibly in existence in the 80s. Has anything more came to light about this? We know it was repeated in the Thames region in 1973 so what happened to it after that? Wasn't it around 1972-73 that more tapes were kept for children's TV at Thames? Is it reasonable to suggest that maybe they weren't wiped and just dissappeared from the archives?
It's true they were keeping material from around that time, but it's likely that the rights for the serial had expired, maybe original broadcast and one repeat allowed, and it was wiped, as there was no production office to stop it by then.

I'm not sure about it being offered alongside series 3, as it would be a little odd, with a different cast.
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

I read somewhere that someone had seen in the early 80s that it was available for export with S3 on a Thames sales sheet although it could be a mistake. Personally do you think there's no chance of any episodes turning up or do you think they are gone forever? I live in hope though but i think the chances are 15%

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Mark »

Like you, I always remain optimistic ( including "Doctor Who") never say never, there may even be Phillips tapes out there somewhere, with the "Serpents" repeat" on it.

Dick Fiddy's piece on the show, in an edition of TV Years Magazine also had an optimistic tone to it.

It remains a mystery as to why ( if that's the case) that the first two series were not offered for sale overseas, plenty of other Thames Children's shows were, including "Sexton Blake".
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by fatcat »

Possibly other TV markets decided it was a bit too way out and scary for their kids?... but that would also mean these markets
received 'audition' copies on 16mm film or Umatic VCR..
In the same year of AOW's premier the preceding series from the same crew SMITH survives intact.

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

I know kaleidoscope are actively searching for the series but I think more people need to know about it. What episodes from S3 was it that were telerecorded? Wasn't it like sisters deadly and peacock pie. We don't even know if the first two series were put on t/r. The show should've been preserved in its entirety but thanks to Thames thinking it was your run of the mill kids show they wiped it. Its incredibly sad that none of Trevor Prestons episodes survive particularly one and one and one are four. The first two series seem to be a lot better judging by audio and photos and I feel the third series to an extent lacked that threat that the earlier villains had- Eg. Nightmare gas. And that's probably why its faded In to obscurity because we only have one series left to judge our opinion on.

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Spiny Norman »

Have you tried posting to the kal fb group?

Still, kal can no more magic stuff back than anyone else. Chances aren't too good, I'd say.
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ArchiveTvfan43
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

Yes I know but kaleidoscope are great. They've unearthed plenty of lost content that we mightve never got to see if it wasn't for them. They found the episode of the Avengers--Tunnel Of Fear and we are all incredibly grateful for them doing that.

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Spiny Norman »

ArchiveTvfan43 wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:36 pm
Yes I know but kaleidoscope are great. They've unearthed plenty of lost content that we mightve never got to see if it wasn't for them. They found the episode of the Avengers--Tunnel Of Fear and we are all incredibly grateful for them doing that.
Yes; but they do a lot of lesser discoveries in various catalogs that slowly come openly available all over the world. Someone found clips from lost Sherlock Holmes in Belgium for example, where they were used as previews.
What I'm trying to say is not that they aren't good; but that some of the discoveries are done by people like you and me - so the other way round that means that you too can try to find audio, or maybe even some obscure foreign run of the series.

I mean that's really my best bet, that it might be lurking behind some language barrier in, say, Hungary - well, either that or it's lost, period.
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Mark »

It's odd looking at what survives and doesn't in those early years, for instance "Elephants Eggs In A Rhubarb Tree" doesn't, but probably wasn't sold overseas, "Tottering Towers" doesn't either, although I would have thought that would be another overseas contender.

Both series of "Pardon My Genie" exist, of course ( out on DVD) from the same period.
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

It's just so sad as the earlier episodes seem to have been really good from what I've heard. Thames kept lots of other inferior shows from that era but of course ace of wands it was too good of a show so bloody typical they wiped it.. What if pamela Lonsdale was in the office when the list came round? Would we be enjoying series 1 and 2?

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Mark »

Aside from "Seven Serpents", my favourites from the first two series were "The Smile" and "Nightmare Gas", they were all good of course, but the first series was more of a cross between "The Avengers" and "Freewheelers" with some quirky elements thrown in, such as Mrs Kite's Time freeze glasses.

The series got even weirder with the second one, and a great set of stories.

Just been thinking of those videotape reel to reel's that turned up a couple of years ago, with clips from shows like "Lift Off".

Music clips of course, but proves there is stuff out there from the period.
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

I wish seven serpents was found with them 😔

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by fatcat »

Mark wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:40 pm
It's odd looking at what survives and doesn't in those early years, for instance "Elephants Eggs In A Rhubarb Tree" doesn't, but probably wasn't sold overseas, "Tottering Towers" doesn't either, although I would have thought that would be another overseas contender.

Both series of "Pardon My Genie" exist, of course ( out on DVD) from the same period.
Well shocked surprise! I always thought Tottering Towers was safely buried in there somewhere.

Yes the Thames childrens' TV legacy over what survived is somewhat bizarre.

IIRC there was a chase scene in a TV studio in Pardon My Genie where they bump into William Mervyn and the TT set.

Anita in Jumbleland seemed to be pretty expensive series (shot on VT at Shepperton and locations) and this definitely went abroad on colour TR in longer versions than the UK VT versions..but I think that is more or less gone?

Another known missing is the Freewheelers' style thriller The Tingeree Affair

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

I think it was the assumption that ace of wands was just your "regular" kids show. It wasn't that. It was a creepy intelligent exciting funny show that should have never been wiped in my opinion and the fact that it was is a tragedy in my opinion. I know they had limited repeats because of equity but it was worth preserving in its entirety even if it took 40+ years for a official release. Of course they weren't forward thinking and its a shame. I'd love to see one and one and one are four and Now you see it now you don't with a young Tim Curry.

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Ian K McL »

I agree it is sad that only the 3rd season survives. Another favourite of mine Orlando starring Sam Kydd does not have a complete surviving story in the archives. And Sexton Blake only has the one surviving episode. A great shame.

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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Mark »

fatcat wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:51 pm
Mark wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:40 pm
It's odd looking at what survives and doesn't in those early years, for instance "Elephants Eggs In A Rhubarb Tree" doesn't, but probably wasn't sold overseas, "Tottering Towers" doesn't either, although I would have thought that would be another overseas contender.

Both series of "Pardon My Genie" exist, of course ( out on DVD) from the same period.
Well shocked surprise! I always thought Tottering Towers was safely buried in there somewhere.

Yes the Thames childrens' TV legacy over what survived is somewhat bizarre.

IIRC there was a chase scene in a TV studio in Pardon My Genie where they bump into William Mervyn and the TT set.

Anita in Jumbleland seemed to be pretty expensive series (shot on VT at Shepperton and locations) and this definitely went abroad on colour TR in longer versions than the UK VT versions..but I think that is more or less gone?

Another known missing is the Freewheelers' style thriller The Tingeree Affair
"The Queen Street Gang" as well.

I always liked the chase through the Studios in various series, there was a few Thames stars in the "PMG" one.

Without checking, I think there is only one "AIJ".
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Mark »

ArchiveTvfan43 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:22 pm
I think it was the assumption that ace of wands was just your "regular" kids show. It wasn't that. It was a creepy intelligent exciting funny show that should have never been wiped in my opinion and the fact that it was is a tragedy in my opinion. I know they had limited repeats because of equity but it was worth preserving in its entirety even if it took 40+ years for a official release. Of course they weren't forward thinking and its a shame. I'd love to see one and one and one are four and Now you see it now you don't with a young Tim Curry.
It was certainly 'Different' to much of the children's output at the time, although it had an Adult style similar to that of "Sexton Blake" and "Timeslip" and it was very popular, it's very frustrating that it's lost.
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by Mark »

Ian K McL wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:27 pm
I agree it is sad that only the 3rd season survives. Another favourite of mine Orlando starring Sam Kydd does not have a complete surviving story in the archives. And Sexton Blake only has the one surviving episode. A great shame.
I liked "Orlando" as well, I assume it was sold overseas, so there is always a chance something may turn up, and "Sexton Blake" as well.
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Re: 2020- Missing Ace of wands(Any progress)

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

If you are interested there is an account called Fredowl on twitter whose purpose is to create ace of wands content. He has created reconstructions of Nightmare Gas, Seven serpents and One and one and one are four. He has also created production subtitles and photo galleries for quite a few stories as well.

Check him out if you like Ace of Wands

https://mobile.twitter.com/fred_owl

(This isnt an advertisement or a plug etc I'm just telling people where they can find more content if they like)

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