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Re: Out of the unknown--The Uninvited

Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 11:15 pm
by Mark
Ah!...this old chestnut.

"To Lay A Ghost" certainly stirs up strong opinions, I have to admit I prefer the first three series as well, but there are creepy moments in this final series.

In this episode, the staircase scene is very effective, I thought.( if you want to take something from it!)

Not seen it for while though, but Michael. J. Bird was more than capable of shocking Psychological Drama, he was responsible for an episode of his own created series, the otherwise excellent, "The Lotus Eaters", an episode in which I have always felt went way over the line of what could be called 'Entertainment', involving an elderly couple played by Sylvia Coleridge and Thorley Walters, I can't watch it as I find it too cruel and distressing, albeit with a clever idea behind it.

With "To Lay A ghost" though, the writer must have got the idea from somewhere, rather than just attempting to shock, as he's not around now, we may never know.

Re: Out of the unknown--The Uninvited

Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 7:42 am
by brigham
Mark wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:15 pm


With "To Lay A ghost" though, the writer must have got the idea from somewhere, rather than just attempting to shock, as he's not around now, we may never know.
He may have come across such an incident in real life.
I did, years ago, and it was so extraordinary that, had I been a writer, I should certainly have addressed the subject in my work.

Re: Out of the unknown--The Uninvited

Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 7:56 pm
by Spiny Norman
Mark wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:15 pm
With "To Lay A ghost" though, the writer must have got the idea from somewhere, rather than just attempting to shock, as he's not around now, we may never know.
We wouldn't usually say that about OOTU, but I guess it's a possibility.

Still, there are two reasons why I don't believe that that possibility justifies the episode (you didn't say it did, but I'd like to point it out anyway - I'm still a bit flabbergasted by the blatant denial earlier on).
Given that people can have sexual climax against their will, it could all go back simply to a case with an involuntary orgasm, that leads to the illusion - the lie - that that in some way signifies consent. But that IS very convenient for the pervert's side. It's the classic "Her voice said no, but her eyes said yes..." Uuhhh...
Or even if it isn't as obvious as that, then just one retelling could significantly alter the POV. Seems hard to know what the truth is then, unless it comes straight from the source. And even then it's possible victims might be so confused as to doubt their own side of the story, for Stockholm syndrome or pure denial. (Some rape victims do not press charges immediately, or even at all.)

So in short, high risk that that isn't exactly what happened (even minus the ghost part).

The second problem is that even if there is no law of nature that says no-one could ever appreciate rape, then that still doesn't mean that it's a good idea to tell that as an amusing story. There are millions of jews today, so logically a few of them must be greedy and treacherous, purely by force of statistics. I might know one who was. So would it be a good idea to put him as a character in a TV program? No, it wouldn't. It would be crass and tone deaf.

Bottom line: There is a long history of blaming abuse on the victims, and the episode can be interpreted as catering to that.

Re: Out of the unknown--The Uninvited

Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:50 am
by Mark
It would be interesting to know what Lesley Ann Down's thoughts on the episode are and were , at the time, not sure she has ever been asked about it.

Re: Out of the unknown--The Uninvited

Posted: Mon May 25, 2020 1:32 pm
by Spiny Norman
brigham wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:42 am
Mark wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:15 pm


With "To Lay A ghost" though, the writer must have got the idea from somewhere, rather than just attempting to shock, as he's not around now, we may never know.
He may have come across such an incident in real life.
I did, years ago, and it was so extraordinary that, had I been a writer, I should certainly have addressed the subject in my work.
By the way, you could have said so at an earlier point. It's not helping anyone if you don't say anything until Mark comes along.

And I still keep some healthy skepticism if you really know what happened. Since it was half-forgotten, I assume at least that you were not personally involved. I sincerely hope so, anyway.

Re: Out of the unknown--The Uninvited

Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 7:37 am
by brigham
Spiny Norman wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 1:32 pm
brigham wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:42 am
Mark wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:15 pm


With "To Lay A ghost" though, the writer must have got the idea from somewhere, rather than just attempting to shock, as he's not around now, we may never know.
He may have come across such an incident in real life.
I did, years ago, and it was so extraordinary that, had I been a writer, I should certainly have addressed the subject in my work.
By the way, you could have said so at an earlier point. It's not helping anyone if you don't say anything until Mark comes along.

And I still keep some healthy skepticism if you really know what happened. Since it was half-forgotten, I assume at least that you were not personally involved. I sincerely hope so, anyway.
I DID say so, at an earlier point; and the fact that you are aware that I described the event as 'half-forgotten' (above) indicates that you have read the post in question.
This is a Forum for discussing television entertainment of yore. It is NOT for the purpose of attacking individuals whose views do not coincide with your own pre-conceived notions.
You may be better served on that score by YouTube.

Re: Out of the unknown--The Uninvited

Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 1:49 pm
by Spiny Norman
brigham wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 7:37 am
This is a Forum for discussing television entertainment of yore. It is NOT for the purpose of attacking individuals whose views do not coincide with your own pre-conceived notions.
Oh sorry, I thought that maybe you would enjoy it. ;)

Haha, see what I did there?