'Royal Family' leaked

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David Boothroyd
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'Royal Family' leaked

Post by David Boothroyd »

Several newspapers are going wild because Richard Cawston's 1969 documentary 'Royal Family' briefly leaked onto Youtube yesterday, before the BBC took it down.

The Daily Telegraph even managed to watch it and review it.

What doesn't seem to have been spotted is that the leaker didn't just put it on Youtube.

brigham
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by brigham »

It's an interesting historical document.
Time it was available on DVD.

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Billy Smart
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by Billy Smart »

An overlooked detail: The 90m cut that is now circulating isn't the original broadcast version, which runs to 105m.

ProfessorP
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by ProfessorP »

Another overlooked detail is that this was apparently already known in some circles. It was shared on a private site over 10 weeks ago, so that's basically when the trouble began, the real leak behind the youtube upload so to speak.
Maybe the stuff hit the fan only this week, but someone already threw it over two months ago.

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stearn
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by stearn »

It continues to do the rounds. I have posted this elsewhere:

A 110min slot when originally broadcast in June 1969 with a 2 minute interval, it was a 105min slot when re-broadcast on BBC1 and 2 simultaneously on Christmas day that year*. The repeat on New Years day on BBC1 was 105min, as was the repeat on BBC a little over a year later 6 Feb 1972. As part of the Festival 77, the repeat was 105min on BBC2 18 Aug 77.

Obviously this sort of debunks the idea that the Queen hasn't allowed repeats and also suggests that there wasn't any substantial editing (if any at all) after original transmission. I would actually be very surprised if there had been any editing after the original transmission as I would assume it would need to be signed off again by the Royal Household to ensure removal of material didn't misrepresent.

None of that should get in the way of a few sensationalist and poorly researched column inches if it is going to sell a few more newspapers though.


Digging about in newspapers, it seems the royalties that the Queen got were donated to BAFTA to help purchase the lease for the Piccadilly site, so there was no personal gain, and that it was considered a huge success. Cawston was invited to produce the Queen's Christmas message each year, and did so until his death in 1986, and there was another documentary (that I vaguely remember) in 1992 - not a follow on from Royal Family, but in a similar informal vein. I have no evidence either way, and some are suggesting that there has been a block on rebroadcast in full since 1977, although not on clips use, but I'd err towards it not being considered a big enough archive draw to rebroadcast entirely, and the Palace would rather move on.

* There was no Queen's speech in 1969 and the simultaneous broadcast was presumably to reach the largest audience (BBC1) and the largest audience in colour (BBC2)

u03drp
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by u03drp »

stearn wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:59 pm
...and there was another documentary (that I vaguely remember) in 1992 - not a follow on from Royal Family, but in a similar informal vein. I have no evidence either way, and some are suggesting that there has been a block on rebroadcast in full since 1977, although not on clips use, but I'd err towards it not being considered a big enough archive draw to rebroadcast entirely, and the Palace would rather move on.
I suspect you're probably right about it being more about interest in rebroadcast rather than any block. The 1992 film you're referring to was, I assume, "Elizabeth R" (not the Glenda Jackson one!) which had both a BBC Video and later Revelation VHS release. Having said that, I'm sure I read in one of the BBC's editorial guidance documents - years ago - that even clip use from all such Royal material (Royal Family, Elizabeth R, Christmas messages) has to be cleared with the Palace.

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stearn
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by stearn »

Elizabeth R does ring a bell. It'll be on Genome and IIRC the edition of RT used the Coronation photo on the cover.

It was a myth yeas ago that Royal material was locked away in a special cupboard. I actually asked the Head of Sound Archives if this was true, but it wasn't. There are certainly restrictions on use but that is like most things. Context of clips is everything so extra care is needed.

yellowtriumph
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by yellowtriumph »

stearn wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:59 pm
It continues to do the rounds. I have posted this elsewhere:

A 110min slot when originally broadcast in June 1969 with a 2 minute interval, it was a 105min slot when re-broadcast on BBC1 and 2 simultaneously on Christmas day that year*. The repeat on New Years day on BBC1 was 105min, as was the repeat on BBC a little over a year later 6 Feb 1972. As part of the Festival 77, the repeat was 105min on BBC2 18 Aug 77.

Obviously this sort of debunks the idea that the Queen hasn't allowed repeats and also suggests that there wasn't any substantial editing (if any at all) after original transmission. I would actually be very surprised if there had been any editing after the original transmission as I would assume it would need to be signed off again by the Royal Household to ensure removal of material didn't misrepresent.

None of that should get in the way of a few sensationalist and poorly researched column inches if it is going to sell a few more newspapers though.


Digging about in newspapers, it seems the royalties that the Queen got were donated to BAFTA to help purchase the lease for the Piccadilly site, so there was no personal gain, and that it was considered a huge success. Cawston was invited to produce the Queen's Christmas message each year, and did so until his death in 1986, and there was another documentary (that I vaguely remember) in 1992 - not a follow on from Royal Family, but in a similar informal vein. I have no evidence either way, and some are suggesting that there has been a block on rebroadcast in full since 1977, although not on clips use, but I'd err towards it not being considered a big enough archive draw to rebroadcast entirely, and the Palace would rather move on.

* There was no Queen's speech in 1969 and the simultaneous broadcast was presumably to reach the largest audience (BBC1) and the largest audience in colour (BBC2)
But BBC 1 & 2 were both in colour at Christmas 1969?

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stearn
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by stearn »

yellowtriumph wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:48 am
But BBC 1 & 2 were both in colour at Christmas 1969?
Across the whole country? I thought there were still regions that only got BBC1 in black and white and the coverage of BBC2 was still smaller than BBC1. I'll have to dig through the Handbooks as perhaps it was just colour production facilities that were, understandably, behind.

yellowtriumph
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by yellowtriumph »

stearn wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:45 pm
yellowtriumph wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:48 am
But BBC 1 & 2 were both in colour at Christmas 1969?
Across the whole country? I thought there were still regions that only got BBC1 in black and white and the coverage of BBC2 was still smaller than BBC1. I'll have to dig through the Handbooks as perhaps it was just colour production facilities that were, understandably, behind.
No need to look, neither BBC1 or 2 were available in colour across the whole country at that point. I just didn't understand the point you were making, but I can see it now. Thank you.

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stearn
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by stearn »

Home schooling is taking it's toll! B+, I must try harder!

u03drp
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by u03drp »

stearn wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:16 pm
Elizabeth R does ring a bell. It'll be on Genome and IIRC the edition of RT used the Coronation photo on the cover.

It was a myth yeas ago that Royal material was locked away in a special cupboard. I actually asked the Head of Sound Archives if this was true, but it wasn't. There are certainly restrictions on use but that is like most things. Context of clips is everything so extra care is needed.
No, no special cupboard :) But, as you say, there are restrictions on use.

From the Editorial Guidelines 13.3.18:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelin ... guidelines
"Content featuring members of the Royal Family or the Royal Palaces is often subject to specific contractual arrangements, especially when the BBC has been given privileged access.
Mandatory Referral: Any plans to re-use, reversion or make available such archive content must be referred to the BBC’s Royal Liaison Officer. This does not apply to news content showing members of the Royal Family carrying out public duties."

I don't know if 'make available' includes straightforward rebroadcast or just use online. I assume it means both.

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stearn
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by stearn »

I'd read make available as release commercially in some form

Mark
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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by Mark »

Wasn't there a problem with releasing Royal command material on DVD?

I'm sure The BBC wanted to use the "Dad's Army" sketch from one of them, as a DVD extra, but were not allowed.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by ian b »

It was this that couldn’t be cleared for the dvds...

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/1b0478c5a0e ... 818432a557


The absence of DAD’S ARMY sequence from the 1975 Royal Variety Performance from the dvds is more down to that year’s show being an ITV production.

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Re: 'Royal Family' leaked

Post by Mark »

Oh yes, got mixed up there, even the DVD's are quite a while back now!

It's a shame, good line up in the whole show.

On Christmas Day, there was a repeat of "Cue The Queen", very well put together.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

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