Sherlock Holmes

What's not currently on the box
Charles Norton
405 lines
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:35 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Charles Norton »

Assuming that you don't have Blu Ray, I think that this is a pretty good choice:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sherlock-Holmes ... _cp_d_h__0

The majority (possibly not quite all) of the episodes in this set were remastered from new transfers for a BBC repeat season. The box does have some rather strange typographical errors on it, but the quality of the episodes themselves is very solid. Sadly, you won't find any DVD boxset containing all of the recent ITV3 remasters. However, this one is certainly the best 'complete' one that I've come across. The only thing that's missing from it is 'The Four Oaks Mystery'.

brigham
D-MAC
Posts: 972
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by brigham »

Is there an official BluRay release? I've seen a privately-imported set in Castillian or some such. Anyone got any experience?

I'm still on the early set with a stout cardboard carrying case and separate cases and discs for each tale. (It might be Granada's own release).

I don't remember 'The Four Oaks Mystery'. Could be one I haven't seen yet. "Weh-Hey!" (Changes to still, in mid-air).

Irongiant
405 lines
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:37 am

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Irongiant »

Charles Norton wrote:Assuming that you don't have Blu Ray, I think that this is a pretty good choice:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sherlock-Holmes ... _cp_d_h__0

The majority (possibly not quite all) of the episodes in this set were remastered from new transfers for a BBC repeat season. The box does have some rather strange typographical errors on it, but the quality of the episodes themselves is very solid. Sadly, you won't find any DVD boxset containing all of the recent ITV3 remasters. However, this one is certainly the best 'complete' one that I've come across. The only thing that's missing from it is 'The Four Oaks Mystery'.
Thanks very much - so is the video and sound quality of that set better than the one that I have?

Also, a Blu-ray release? I do in fact have a Blu-ray player.

Also, regarding the ITV3 remasters - which episodes were remastered, and are they available to buy?

User avatar
Nick Cooper 625
D-MAC
Posts: 964
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:42 am
Location: Hither Green, London
Contact:

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Nick Cooper 625 »

Having now watched the Holmes documentary, I have to confess to finding it interesting, but ultimately unsatisfying, and in some cases downright annoying. For one thing, sure, acknowledge that teh deerstalker and Inverness cape come from the Paget illustrations, but it's doing viewers a diservice by not pointing out that such appearances were very rare, and strictly in context. By that I mean that Holmes was almost always only shown wearing them - sometimes - when travelling to or actually in the countryside, precisely where they would have been appropriate. I also found the use of clips and the choice of Holmes actors to receive anything more than a passing mention (if any) to be patchy.
"Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo." [Wells]

Tim Munro
405 lines
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Tim Munro »

brigham wrote:Is there an official BluRay release? I've seen a privately-imported set in Castillian or some such. Anyone got any experience?
Sounds like the Spanish releases. With a British bluray release nowhere to be seen they're probably your best option for the series in HD - look and sound better than they ever have before, and can easily be switched to the English soundtrack with no subtitles. Only downer is that "The Three Gables" is an upscale - it seems that the film elements for that one episode have not survived.

ctraynor
D-MAC
Posts: 777
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:43 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by ctraynor »

Nick Cooper 625 wrote:Having now watched the Holmes documentary, I have to confess to finding it interesting, but ultimately unsatisfying, and in some cases downright annoying. For one thing, sure, acknowledge that teh deerstalker and Inverness cape come from the Paget illustrations, but it's doing viewers a diservice by not pointing out that such appearances were very rare, and strictly in context. By that I mean that Holmes was almost always only shown wearing them - sometimes - when travelling to or actually in the countryside, precisely where they would have been appropriate. I also found the use of clips and the choice of Holmes actors to receive anything more than a passing mention (if any) to be patchy.
I looked forward to the programme simply because of its existence but I was pretty sure it wasn't going to tell the likes of us on the MC anything new and I don't think it did. I'd have preferred Christopher Frayling as presenter, like in those '90s documentaries he made.

I'm half looking forward to/half dreading the doc the BBC are doing on the history of science fiction. I'm sure those of us interested will keep our fingers crossed for reference to and use of material less well known by general viewers. By that I mean much much less well known by general viewers. Because it would be nice to see it showing how SF in TV etc covers themes, rather than just taking the piss or going for the nostalgia thing.

User avatar
Phantom Wombat
405 lines
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:44 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Phantom Wombat »

Irongiant wrote:Getting back to Jeremy Brett as Holmes, and bearing in mind that my interest mainly lies in 'The Adventures of ...' and 'The Return of ...' what is currently considered to be the definite release of those Granada series?

I currently have this DVD boxset:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sherlock-Holmes ... 0006V1FRK/

I believe that the episodes in these are complete (some earlier release had some missing scenes), but are they the best in terms of picture and sound quality? did they ever get an HD release? I recall some being shown on TV a few years ago.
Go Spanish... Spanish Blu-ray The individual series have been in sales fairly frequently (postage will be a flat 6€), The end credits look like they've been redone but otherwise they're splendid

Irongiant
405 lines
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:37 am

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Irongiant »

Phantom Wombat wrote:
Irongiant wrote:Getting back to Jeremy Brett as Holmes, and bearing in mind that my interest mainly lies in 'The Adventures of ...' and 'The Return of ...' what is currently considered to be the definite release of those Granada series?

I currently have this DVD boxset:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sherlock-Holmes ... 0006V1FRK/

I believe that the episodes in these are complete (some earlier release had some missing scenes), but are they the best in terms of picture and sound quality? did they ever get an HD release? I recall some being shown on TV a few years ago.
Go Spanish... Spanish Blu-ray The individual series have been in sales fairly frequently (postage will be a flat 6€), The end credits look like they've been redone but otherwise they're splendid
Thanks.

In what way have the end credits been redone?

drmih
625 lines
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:21 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by drmih »

I have the Japanese blu-ray Brett set on 12 discs - I guess it's the same masters as the Spanish one.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Sherlock- ... ray/56477/

Charles Norton
405 lines
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:35 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Charles Norton »

brigham wrote:
I don't remember 'The Four Oaks Mystery'. Could be one I haven't seen yet. "Weh-Hey!" (Changes to still, in mid-air).

More on 'Four Oaks' here:
http://www.jeremybrett.info/sh_fouroaks.html

Along with 'The Last Vampyre' and 'The Eligible Bachelor', 'Four Oaks' was an essentially original tale and not an adaptation of a Conan Doyle story (unlike all the other Brett episodes).

brigham
D-MAC
Posts: 972
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by brigham »

drmih wrote:I have the Japanese blu-ray Brett set on 12 discs - I guess it's the same masters as the Spanish one.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Sherlock- ... ray/56477/
It claims to be 1.33:1 on the Amazon site, but reading the reviews I suspect otherwise. Can you confirm, please?

drmih
625 lines
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:21 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by drmih »

brigham wrote:
drmih wrote:I have the Japanese blu-ray Brett set on 12 discs - I guess it's the same masters as the Spanish one.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Sherlock- ... ray/56477/
It claims to be 1.33:1 on the Amazon site, but reading the reviews I suspect otherwise. Can you confirm, please?
I'll check tonight but I don't remember them being 4:3, but sometimes equipment can stretch / crop but I think they are 16:9.

**This is the google translation from the supplier:

"Special
※ About screen, I will be "4:3" is the first episode, second episode 35, "14:9" is the 36th episode, and "16:9" is the other.
※ For English voice, I will be "linear PCM2.0ch mono" 33 episodes in all 41 episodes, the "linear PCM2.0ch stereo" is Episode 8.
※ For Layer Type
DISC1 ~ 11 will be single-layer single-sided, dual-layer single-sided, only DISC12."

I'm guessing this means that 1 through 35 are 4:3, 36 is 14:9 and 37 to 41 are 16:9.

Brian F
625 lines
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Brian F »

Tim Munro wrote:
brigham wrote:Is there an official BluRay release? I've seen a privately-imported set in Castillian or some such. Anyone got any experience?
Sounds like the Spanish releases. With a British bluray release nowhere to be seen they're probably your best option for the series in HD - look and sound better than they ever have before, and can easily be switched to the English soundtrack with no subtitles. Only downer is that "The Three Gables" is an upscale - it seems that the film elements for that one episode have not survived.
Shame, I saw that episode at a preview at the NFT with a Q&A session with the screenwriter, Peter Wyngarde not not Jeremy Brett (said to be too ill to attend).

User avatar
Richard A
625 lines
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:10 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Richard A »

It's become fashionable in certain places to regard Igor Maslennikov's Holmes adaptations to be the best of all of them.

Mr. Bongo has released Maslennikov's The Hound of the Baskervilles from this series, it's very enjoyable and I'd recommend it to anyone. I think there are some R2/PAL Russian releases with English subs out there, but I haven't checked recently. Unfortunately Lenfilm (who produced Maslennikov's films) are not as helpful in this respect as Mosfilm, who have some subtitled films available to stream from their website.

Based on my viewing of The Hound of the Baskervilles I'd say that Maslennikov's adaptations are good, but I think I would still vote for Granada's Brett series.

User avatar
Phantom Wombat
405 lines
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:44 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Phantom Wombat »

Irongiant wrote: In what way have the end credits been redone?
They all state copyright ITV Studios Limited - in the case of "The Priory School" this clearly looks a superimposed black box with yellow text over the original copyright notice, which plays over live action. It's the only one I can really remember looking poorly done. However, I've no desire to be reminded 72 times that I wouldn't steal a car or knife a pensioner to death, so can't be certain they haven't always said this. In any event, it's the best I've seen the episodes: the French BD transfer is identical to the Spanish, but costs over twice as much. The Japanese transfer MAY be better, but is obviously hideously expensive.

Although the Spanish cases all say 4/3 ratio, later episodes are widescreen. This release has 5 feature length episodes (Sign of Four, Hound, Master Blackmailer Vampire, Eligible Bachelor) in a volume of their own released before the last 2 series so numbering may be confusing, and may be an issue if you were expecting the first two as part of "Return..." (it's currently cheaper getting the whole collection than the first 3 individual volumes)

drmih
625 lines
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:21 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by drmih »

brigham wrote:
drmih wrote:I have the Japanese blu-ray Brett set on 12 discs - I guess it's the same masters as the Spanish one.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Sherlock- ... ray/56477/
It claims to be 1.33:1 on the Amazon site, but reading the reviews I suspect otherwise. Can you confirm, please?
The Japanese set seems to be in the original ratio. All 4:3 until 'The Three Gables', which is 14:9, and then the final few are 16:9. I think that that ties up with the Japanese translation I posted earlier.

Irongiant
405 lines
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:37 am

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Irongiant »

Out of interest, is there anywhere online a list of the production order of the Granada adaptations?

User avatar
Simon Coward
D-MAC
Posts: 884
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:56 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Simon Coward »

Irongiant wrote:Out of interest, is there anywhere online a list of the production order of the Granada adaptations?
I don't know whether it's wholly reliable, but the Granada production numbers listed on itnsource.com may give a broadly accurate view. Certainly the first production has the lowest number: "The Solitary Cyclist" is 1/1125/0001 (would have been P1125/1 on the original paperwork but the numeric parts, leading zeroes aside, won't have changed).

Depending on the exact view you're looking at on that website, the production number might be described as 'Ref' (in which case it probably won't have the slashes but, that aside, it'll be the same number) or as 'Production Id'.
We all have to eat a peck of dirt before we die.

Irongiant
405 lines
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:37 am

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Irongiant »

Many thanks Simon, that's very helpful - I'll take a look.

simon10011
405 lines
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:45 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by simon10011 »

Have recently watched 3 versions of Hound of the Baskervilles. Cushing, 1968, Baker, 1982 and Brett 1988. The Brett version i think is the best of the 3 although i didn't think the Tom Baker version was too bad. A little overlong at 2hrs perhaps. Also thought Terence Rigby was actually ok as Watson despite looking like he stepped straight off the Music Hall stage. Cushing comes across as a little too jolly in character and Nigel Stock just about steers clear of falling into Nigel Bruce territory. Personally don't think Bretts Holmes will be bettered! Have never been keen on Rathbone and not really seen the Douglas Wilmer episodes or indeed the Cumberbatch episodes.

Michael
625 lines
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:41 pm
Location: Oxford

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Michael »

It seems that the US is getting a hi-def release of the Granada series...

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Adventures-Sherlock-Holmes-The-Complete-Granada-Television-Series/20293

User avatar
Simon36
HD
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:43 am

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Simon36 »

simon10011 wrote:Have recently watched 3 versions of Hound of the Baskervilles. Cushing, 1968, Baker, 1982 and Brett 1988. The Brett version i think is the best of the 3 although i didn't think the Tom Baker version was too bad. A little overlong at 2hrs perhaps. Also thought Terence Rigby was actually ok as Watson despite looking like he stepped straight off the Music Hall stage. Cushing comes across as a little too jolly in character and Nigel Stock just about steers clear of falling into Nigel Bruce territory. Personally don't think Bretts Holmes will be bettered! Have never been keen on Rathbone and not really seen the Douglas Wilmer episodes or indeed the Cumberbatch episodes.
Maybe repeating myself here but... Much as I love Brett I thought Baskervilles was the first hint that things were slipping with the series. It just didn't gel for me. Brett was clearly ill and exhausted, the performance is so low-key. I always found Edward Hardwicke a rather dull Watson compared to David Burke too. I thought the Baker version was a spendid dramatization, a lovely script and terrific localtion footage, the only thing that let it down for me was the two leads and the hound! As I've said before, the man on the tor, the portrait of Sir Hugo, the music, so much of it was excellent. Loved Nick Woodeson's Sir Henry too.

ctraynor
D-MAC
Posts: 777
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:43 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by ctraynor »

Same with me: I thought Brett's Baskervilles version amounted to sabotage. Almost every shot seemed wrong and it seemed a bit luvvie when it needed a bit of top spin, though not of the Guy Richie level. Of course it may not have helped that Brett was getting ill by that time.

The book is still the one for me. I liked both Cushing versions, with reservations, and Ian Richardson's TV film version except for Donald Churchill's Nigel Bruce. Hadn't they learnt by 1982?

Tim Munro
405 lines
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Tim Munro »

The failings of the Granada Baskervilles are largely attributable to the fact that it was done with sod all money, producer June Wyndham Davis having elected to open that run of episodes with location filming in Cornwall for "The Devil's Foot" on which the costs spiralled horrendously out of control. In consequence the projected run of 6 standard episodes was curtailed to 4 episodes and one feature-lengther. At this point it might have been better if they'd opted for something like the later "Master Blackmailer", which could probably have been done well without a lot of money, but bizarrely they opted to do the most famous - and one of the most demanding - Holmes stories of all with ludicrously limited resources.The result couldn't help but be disappointing. As for JB's performance in it, I've always suspected that having just emerged from one of his many spells in a psychiatric hospital he was probably trying to find a way to play the part that was less dangerously manic than before. The result is very unusually subdued and it's noticeable that he never tried this approach again, even in the later episodes when he really was desperately ill.

mikew
405 lines
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:36 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by mikew »

Not just the costs of The Devil's Foot but also the hugely expensive staging of a Victorian racecourse meeting for the end of Silver Blaze. At least The Devil's Foot benefitted from all that wonderful location filming (it's one of my favourites of the whole series) but the lavish horse race is completely unnecessary. It's almost heartbreaking to watch Silver Blaze in that respect because you can virtually see the budget of Hound of the Baskervilles wandering around on the screen being wasted.

There are so many things wrong with the Brett version of Hound it's hard to know where to start - it's not all the production, some of it is the script. Why on earth do they include the shot of Holmes in London (lifted from The Greek Interpreter)? Even the Tom Baker version knows better than to do that!

ctraynor
D-MAC
Posts: 777
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:43 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by ctraynor »

That's one example of what I meant when I said pretty much every shot was wrong. There's also the one where there's a shot of Holmes just before he enters the hut where Watson is hiding, ruining the tension. Not that there was much in that adaptation.

User avatar
Simon36
HD
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:43 am

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Simon36 »

Tim Munro wrote:The failings of the Granada Baskervilles are largely attributable to the fact that it was done with sod all money, producer June Wyndham Davis having elected to open that run of episodes with location filming in Cornwall for "The Devil's Foot" on which the costs spiralled horrendously out of control. In consequence the projected run of 6 standard episodes was curtailed to 4 episodes and one feature-lengther. At this point it might have been better if they'd opted for something like the later "Master Blackmailer", which could probably have been done well without a lot of money, but bizarrely they opted to do the most famous - and one of the most demanding - Holmes stories of all with ludicrously limited resources.The result couldn't help but be disappointing. As for JB's performance in it, I've always suspected that having just emerged from one of his many spells in a psychiatric hospital he was probably trying to find a way to play the part that was less dangerously manic than before. The result is very unusually subdued and it's noticeable that he never tried this approach again, even in the later episodes when he really was desperately ill.
Fascinating: is this all documented somewhere? I am sure there are many horror stories about those final years of the programme.

I saw Brett and Hardwicke on stage in 1989 doing The Secret of Sherlock Holmes: fantastic stuff but later I found an account online somewhere of the hell that was going on backstage in that production.

Tim Munro
405 lines
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Tim Munro »

Simon36 wrote:
Fascinating: is this all documented somewhere? I am sure there are many horror stories about those final years of the programme.

I saw Brett and Hardwicke on stage in 1989 doing The Secret of Sherlock Holmes: fantastic stuff but later I found an account online somewhere of the hell that was going on backstage in that production.
Michael Cox's excellent "A Study In Celluloid" is a good source for a lot of the behind the scenes stories on the episodes he was involved with and a critique of how it departed from his intentions after he was gone.

The script for "Baskervilles" is certainly as much a problem as the parsimonious production. Holmes's apparent return to London (in stock footage!)is truly bizarre and suggests either that Trevor Bowen didn't really understand Conan Doyle's plot or there was a panic when it dawned on the production team how little screentime Holmes would otherwise have.

It was certainly the first indication of the wheels coming off and in an ideal world I'd much rather that they'd done a feature length take on a simpler tale ( "Milverton" strikes me as ideal - they spun it out to 90 minutes very well later on and without much in the way of expensive visuals) and done "Baskervilles" later, ideally with all the money and resources and good director that were later lavished on the undeserving "Last Vampyre". Also it really needed proper location work on Dartmoor, not the glaringly obvious combination of Derbyshire locations and a sound-stage moor that we got. In fact considering how much had been blown on using Cornwall for "Devil's Foot" one wonders why they didn't just go the whole hog and cram in a few days in Devon for "Baskervilles" while they were down there (ironically there's footage of the moors shot for "Devil's Foot" cut into "Baskervilles" in places to bolster the atmosphere).

As for the wonderful stage play of treasured memory, I'm not sure if there was backstage hell but certainly Jeremy did get more eccentric and prone to ad-libbing as the run went on and there was at least one major blow-up when Hardwicke called him on this, but the latter seems to have had a wonderful ability to understand the sometimes horrific consequences of Brett's bi-polar disorder and disregard them when he had to.

User avatar
Simon36
HD
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:43 am

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Simon36 »

Desperately need that book now, thank you for the heads up.

Baskervilles was a mad enterprise considering those budgetary problems but there were two very good reasons for doing it to my mind. One was that it was part of the Holmes centenary (at least the TV Times made a point of saying so, despite that really being the excellent Sign of Four the previous Christmas) and so it would make ense to do the most famous story, and also it doesn't feature Holmes that much so made a good nursery slope back to work for Brett.

ctraynor
D-MAC
Posts: 777
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:43 pm

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by ctraynor »

Simon36 wrote:
Tim Munro wrote:The failings of the Granada Baskervilles are largely attributable to the fact that it was done with sod all money, producer June Wyndham Davis having elected to open that run of episodes with location filming in Cornwall for "The Devil's Foot" on which the costs spiralled horrendously out of control. In consequence the projected run of 6 standard episodes was curtailed to 4 episodes and one feature-lengther. At this point it might have been better if they'd opted for something like the later "Master Blackmailer", which could probably have been done well without a lot of money, but bizarrely they opted to do the most famous - and one of the most demanding - Holmes stories of all with ludicrously limited resources.The result couldn't help but be disappointing. As for JB's performance in it, I've always suspected that having just emerged from one of his many spells in a psychiatric hospital he was probably trying to find a way to play the part that was less dangerously manic than before. The result is very unusually subdued and it's noticeable that he never tried this approach again, even in the later episodes when he really was desperately ill.
Fascinating: is this all documented somewhere? I am sure there are many horror stories about those final years of the programme.
Sherlock Holmes on Screen: The Complete Film and TV History by Alan Barnes. This was published by Reynolds & Hearn who I gather are now defunct so you might have to scout around for this book. It's good, though.

Post Reply