Things you're not allowed to do on television

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Clive
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Clive »

Regardless on if there were any rules on showing Tommy Coopers death on stage, why would anyone want to see it ? I know that a Dutch show got hold of a copy a few years ago and there was a bit of an uproar when it appeared on YouTube, I made the mistake of watching it and it has haunted me ever since. I would hope that moral discretion would stop such things being shown, rather than official rules of any kind..

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Mike S »

What's the situation with the 'Other [items of this nature] are available' disclaimer? Is it a bit of faux-rule, like saying 'allegedly' after something libellous?

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Mike S »

Clive wrote:Regardless on if there were any rules on showing Tommy Coopers death on stage, why would anyone want to see it ? [...] I made the mistake of watching it and it has haunted me ever since.
I think you've answered your own question there!

I watched it on YouTube too, out of pure morbid curiosity. It's a very weird watch - the audience laughing uproariously at what appears to be an example of his brilliant comic timing. It's almost, dare I say it, darkly funny for precisely this reason.

It's hard to imagine a justifiable editorial reason for re-broadcasting it, though.

ChartUpdate
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by ChartUpdate »

Mike S wrote:What's the situation with the 'Other [items of this nature] are available' disclaimer? Is it a bit of faux-rule, like saying 'allegedly' after something libellous?
This dates from the early 90s when the BBC began to quite aggressively promote their stable of magazine publications with some quite lavish trails during programme junctions, most notably for the Radio Times but also things like Fast Forward and other minority titles. This coincided with the 1991 deregulation of listings magazines and was clearly an attempt to preserve market share, but it became problematic when the publishers of rival titles complained that the BBC was abusing its monopolistic position by promoting its own product in a manner which was closed off to everyone else.

This resulted in a conspicuous toning down of promotional activity, Radio Times plugs now reduced to a still shot of the cover and the script read by the continuity announcer along with the mandated caption of "Other Listings Magazines Are Available". Almost two and a half decades later the phrase lives on in popular culture as a semi-ironic note that you are promoting item x from a position of privilege or simply personal prejudice. Mainly on internet forums it must be said.

So no, it is not a rule. Unless you are advertising the Radio Times on the BBC. Or running Microsoft Windows for the first time in an EU country.

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Mike S »

Just noticed that This Week contains House of Commons footage. Probably because it's technically a 'serious' show, even though it clearly isn't.

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Juswuh »

David Boothroyd wrote:I've seen it said that C4-era Celebrity Big Brother clips must be cleared by the person featured. Jack Dee apparently prevented reshowing of his time on the very first, and (understandably) Les Dennis won't have his depressive appearance shown again.
Has the Jade Goody/Shilpa Shetty scene ever had another airing?

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Nick Cooper 625 »

GarethR wrote:Legend has it that the recording of that edition of Live At Her Majesty's was immediately commandeered by LWT's head of entertainment and kept in his office under lock and key, because he knew that if it was left in the VT library it would end up being copied endlessly. The fact that no dubs of the master VT have ever escaped into the wild (AFAIK, anyway) suggests that the legend is probably true.
Someone I used to know recorded it at the time, but he'd made a personal vow never to copy it for anyone, and I doubt he would have ever been swayed to do otherwise subsequently. It was also on VCC/V2000, so it's probably a moot point anyway. It's certainly only recently that the footage has appeared on an certain site, so even if he wasn't the only person to record it, there can't have been many others.
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BobDylan'sGrandmother
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by BobDylan'sGrandmother »

We recorded Live From Her Majesties, that Sunday evening and played that bit back when they went to break. Like most/many it was 'He didn't look right' vs 'That was a prank!' I don't know WHY we recorded it (the whole programme) but anything that looked halfway decent, we'd usually look at again the next morning instead of breakfast telly- I know this was the case with TOTP! So I assumed that'd be the reasoning- it's 30 years ago now, of course!

When they returned from the break, you could sense this atmosphere of uncertainty and it was a case of waiting to see if anything was said. It was incredibly tense.

This was mentioned on another (non-tv/film related) forum just a few days ago. Somebody said it was on (*ahem*) and I did post a warning about how harrowing it was at the time to see, except someone looked at it and said that he regretted it badly- he probably wouldn't have been born at the time (I was 14) and certainly had never heard of TC.

We 'scrubbed over it' as soon as we knew what had happened to Tommy. I can't think why someone would want to keep it (ok, it's 'historical', but..) let alone put it on the net.

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Ross »

Clive wrote:Regardless on if there were any rules on showing Tommy Coopers death on stage, why would anyone want to see it ?
I watched it once and once only on YouTube to exercise a ghost, so to speak. I'd seen the show live as a high school-age boy and laughed at it. As Mike says, the timing is almost uncanny. I remember my dad complaining that it wasn't funny, but we all believed it was part of the show.

I found out the truth soon afterwards and felt guilty that I'd laughed as a man died. Occasionally over the years, when Tommy Cooper was mentioned, I'd think about it and wonder how I'd misread the situation so badly. How could a man dying look like a comedy sketch? I knew I was hopeless at reading people and situations at that age (and for a while after) but had I been that bad?

So I took the opportunity to watch it again and realised what had happened. The comic's reputation, the audience's response, the setting of a light-hearted variety show, and the rather uncanny unwitting timing of the collapse all made it appear that it was part of the show.

I was glad to get that straight, although I'll never watch it again.

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Mike S »

I got sick and tired of people saying 'I saw it at the time and I never want to see it again', with a slight air of Keith Richards telling you to stay off heroin. I welcomed the chance to finally see it for myself.

Why? Well, why do we watch the Zapruder footage, or the planes going into the Twin Towers?

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by GarethR »

After the Cooper clip appeared on YouTube, I rather hoped that we'd also get to see what happened afterwards, if only to squash a few myths.

Trish Bertram was in LWT TX that night, and has vivid memories of the panicked talkback between the OB and Presentation.

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Koen »

GarethR wrote:
Trish Bertram was in LWT TX that night, and has vivid memories of the panicked talkback between the OB and Presentation.
Now that would be interesting from a historical point of view - doesn't the quad standard have an additional track that's used for talkback? There's an interesting documentary waiting to be made about emergency situations like this, and you wouldn't even have to show the (reportedly) harrowing footage.

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David Boothroyd
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by David Boothroyd »

Have a look on TV Ark for the titles for LWT's 'The Pyramid Game'.

Could almost have been used as a test for photosensitive epilepsy, and certainly wouldn't be allowed now.

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by GarethR »

There are a few known instances of the gallery chatter being recorded on LE programmes, but I have no idea how common that actually was. It was/is standard for BBC news bulletins.

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Paul Hayes
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Paul Hayes »

This may have been mentioned already, but you're not allowed to perform any internal edits on parliamentary material.

Which I suspect is probably more relevant to radio than TV, given it's easier to do on radio. But every cough and stumble and mistake has to stay in whatever clip you might use.

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Mike S »

Adverts are a whole subsection of this topic, with no end of bizarre prohibitions. You can't show people drinking alcohol alone, for example.

I once heard you're not allowed to show a teddy bear being detroyed - not just in children's slots, but at all. Not sure if that's true or not.

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Mickey
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Mickey »

Steve Punt blew up Hugh Dennis's teddy on "The Mary Whitehouse Experience".

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Mike S »

Paul Hayes wrote:This may have been mentioned already, but you're not allowed to perform any internal edits on parliamentary material.

Which I suspect is probably more relevant to radio than TV, given it's easier to do on radio. But every cough and stumble and mistake has to stay in whatever clip you might use.
Chris Morris, of course, had scant respect for that particular rule.

What was the name of that BBC3 comedy mash-up show, where odd bits of TV were cut and pasted into a montage? Because I'm sure that used to feature spliced HoC footage.

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Mike S »

Mickey wrote:Steve Punt blew up Hugh Dennis's teddy on "The Mary Whitehouse Experience".
I'm talking about adverts though.

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Mickey
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Mickey »

Yes, I thought that you were, but it seems like such a strange rule to create for adverts, particularly if it's not just in children's slots. I suppose one could argue that they can't be completely sure of when any one advert will air, so it's better to be safe than sorry, but it still seems very odd.

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Ross
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Ross »

Mike S wrote:Adverts are a whole subsection of this topic, with no end of bizarre prohibitions. You can't show people drinking alcohol alone, for example.
Is that a ruling, though, or just an unwritten rule amongst the admen themselves? I heard (!) that for beer ads, they always showed groups of three men as one drinking alone is a Billy No-Mates and two look like a gay couple.

I wonder if the Strand ad might have shifted some more death sticks if the man had met up with someone in the dying seconds.

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Scary
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Scary »

Ross wrote:
Mike S wrote:Adverts are a whole subsection of this topic, with no end of bizarre prohibitions. You can't show people drinking alcohol alone, for example.
Is that a ruling, though, or just an unwritten rule amongst the admen themselves?
I would have thought it would come under:

19.7 Advertisements must not portray alcohol as indispensable or as taking priority in life.
Advertisements must not imply that drinking can overcome problems or that regular
solitary drinking is acceptable.

http://www.asa.org.uk/News-resources/Ho ... %2019.ashx

There is a rule about using characters that might appeal to under 18's, which is why something like the Hofmeister bear couldn't be used today

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Mike S »

The Egg Marketing Board (or whatever they're called these days) wanted to re-run the old Tony Hancock ads a few years back, didn't they? But they were told 'Go to work on an egg' breaches today's regulations, because it implies eggs should be wolfed down on a daily basis.

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Nick Cooper 625 »

Ross wrote:
Mike S wrote:Adverts are a whole subsection of this topic, with no end of bizarre prohibitions. You can't show people drinking alcohol alone, for example.
Is that a ruling, though, or just an unwritten rule amongst the admen themselves? I heard (!) that for beer ads, they always showed groups of three men as one drinking alone is a Billy No-Mates and two look like a gay couple.
Yes, that was recounted in Washes Whiter by one of your actual admen (the one responsible for the "It's what your right arm's for" slogan), who also said that four was never used because it's too many to fit the screen. I wonder if that has changed now we're in 16:9 land...?
I wonder if the Strand ad might have shifted some more death sticks if the man had met up with someone in the dying seconds.
Then the slogan wouldn't have worked.
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Richardr1 »

BobDylan'sGrandmother wrote:I've not listened to the station for a long time now, but on Planet Rock (a digital commercial station, for those who may not be aware of it) would play an album in full, albeit with an ad-break in here and there- maybe even an early fade or two.

I remember recording Rod Stewart's 'Every Picture Tells A Story' from there (on minidisc!)- this was around 2001. It was a weekly feature (or show) on early Saturday evening IIRC. I've just looked at next weekend's schedule and it seems they dropped this at some point.

Maybe then, it was permitted for a time and copyright restrictions can come to be amended/altered, as we know.
They still do - on a Monday evening. I haven't listened to check, but the programme description states:

"Every Monday at 11pm, we play a classic album in full, with no interruptions! "

Steve Williams
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Steve Williams »

Nick Cooper 625 wrote:Yes, that was recounted in Washes Whiter by one of your actual admen (the one responsible for the "It's what your right arm's for" slogan), who also said that four was never used because it's too many to fit the screen. I wonder if that has changed now we're in 16:9 land...?
I'm pretty sure they don't have four men because four is officially a gang, and hence unruly.

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BobDylan'sGrandmother
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by BobDylan'sGrandmother »

Richardr1 wrote:
BobDylan'sGrandmother wrote:I've not listened to the station for a long time now, but on Planet Rock (a digital commercial station, for those who may not be aware of it) would play an album in full, albeit with an ad-break in here and there- maybe even an early fade or two.

I remember recording Rod Stewart's 'Every Picture Tells A Story' from there (on minidisc!)- this was around 2001. It was a weekly feature (or show) on early Saturday evening IIRC. I've just looked at next weekend's schedule and it seems they dropped this at some point.

Maybe then, it was permitted for a time and copyright restrictions can come to be amended/altered, as we know.
They still do - on a Monday evening. I haven't listened to check, but the programme description states:

"Every Monday at 11pm, we play a classic album in full, with no interruptions! "
Ah; Thanks, Richard! If I'd have just looked further along the schedule...

marsey
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by marsey »

Interesting that they can't show shots of MPS asleep in the HoC.Surely it's in the public interest to show constiuents the kind of people they are voting into office?

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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Bernie »

ChartUpdate wrote:
Mike S wrote:What's the situation with the 'Other [items of this nature] are available' disclaimer? Is it a bit of faux-rule, like saying 'allegedly' after something libellous?
This dates from the early 90s when the BBC began to quite aggressively promote their stable of magazine publications with some quite lavish trails during programme junctions, most notably for the Radio Times but also things like Fast Forward and other minority titles. This coincided with the 1991 deregulation of listings magazines and was clearly an attempt to preserve market share, but it became problematic when the publishers of rival titles complained that the BBC was abusing its monopolistic position by promoting its own product in a manner which was closed off to everyone else.

This resulted in a conspicuous toning down of promotional activity, Radio Times plugs now reduced to a still shot of the cover and the script read by the continuity announcer along with the mandated caption of "Other Listings Magazines Are Available". Almost two and a half decades later the phrase lives on in popular culture as a semi-ironic note that you are promoting item x from a position of privilege or simply personal prejudice. Mainly on internet forums it must be said.
I made those, having said beforehand that it would be a mistake. We'd been staying under the radar with Radio Times and a few other things for years, but a new head of department wanted to go full tilt. We had tiny budgets - especially compared to what the BBC will now pay for quite mundane promotions. We'd sit in a Harry suite and watch a big proportion of our cash disappear during a ten minute render, and then have to say "hmmm, lets try again". I did get to shoot in 35mm on a Tunisian beach though, when RT felt generous. Soon enough the Monopolies and Mergers Commission quite rightly shut us down, and then we couldn't even do the stuff we'd been doing for many years. Just bad management.

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Mark Wright
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Re: Things you're not allowed to do on television

Post by Mark Wright »

I've always understood it to be the case that commercials featuring recognisable actors (either appearing in person or on V/O duty) are prohibited from being scheduled within and around the programmes they also appear in, or have an established connection to. Were this indeed once the case, the rule has evidently been lifted or its interpretation changed, as this now happens quite frequently on channels such as Gold and Dave. It's not unusual while watching an episode of QI on Dave, for example, to hear Fry (or one of the panelists) flogging something during the breaks. I recently heard a Stephen Mangam voiced ad during a break in the episode of I'm Alan Partridge in which he appeared (this was on Gold). Whether it's allowed or not these days, it still seems odd to me when I occasionally catch it happen.

In my commercial radio days, we used to have complicated "clash codes" set up in the traffic scheduling system to ensure separation between commercials voiced by the same person and competing products/companies, etc. I always imagined the same would be true of the ITV companies. I'm not sure now whether we did it to comply with specific IBA/RA/OFCOM codes, or whether it was a purely aesthetic consideration. I suppose that, before the explosion of largely automated TV channels running archive material, together with the ubiquity of well-known voices flogging stuff inbetween, things would have been easier to police. I do wonder whether no-one cares anymore, or if it's just sloppiness on the part of the broadcasters.

On a slightly related topic, I did spot a genuine no-no the other day which I politely alerted the channel to (and got a snotty reply for my trouble). Challenge were running out-of-date sponsor tags intended for their evening shows throughout the morning and early afternoon. Given that these could have contained "evening only" material unsuitable for daytime, I thought I'd flag it up on their Facebook page (first time I've ever bothered doing such a thing, but I had a day off and was bored.) After receiving an incredulous reply, I asked whether they wanted me to contact the agency representing the sponsor whose credits had been missing all day, and lo and behold they were back on-air by the next break... but no further reply or thanks ;-) I was all poised to retort with "I can't believe the client signed-off that weird delivery of "Challenge" in their bumpers (that you've clearly edited without their knowledge)" but didn't get a chance...

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