End of Part X

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David Smith
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End of Part X

Post by David Smith »

Morning all - apologies if this has been discussed before at length but I'm a relatively new member... :-)

It's recently occurred to me that TV shows on commercial channels never seem to go to the break with a caption saying "End of Part...whatever" any more. Instead you invariably just get a slide with the show's logo.

Anybody any idea why this is? Maybe because shows are increasingly sold to different channels where they'll have more breaks? Or is it because some shows are so darn long these days, you'd get the likes of The X Factor saying "End of Part Eleven", which would look a bit daft and just draw attention to how many breaks there were?

Just intrigues me a bit.

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Simon36
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Simon36 »

I raised this point within a thread a while back I think but only in passing. I suspect all of those reasons are valid, and also simply that it was seen as old fashioned and precise, very unpopular things these days.

I can remember KILLER WAITING in 1984 being the last time I ever saw "End of Act One" and "Act Two" on screen.

Mark
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Mark »

The number of breaks is certainly a possibility.

Due to all the breaks, both 60 min shows, "Treasure Hunt" and "321" ( on Challenge) take up 75 min slots.!
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Re: End of Part X

Post by GarethR »

David Smith wrote: which would look a bit daft and just draw attention to how many breaks there were?
It's probably less to do with that than making it obvious to the viewer who'd just switched over how much of the programme s/he'd missed. If you know you've joined a programme at part 4, perhaps you're more likely to think that you've missed too much to make it worthwhile staying with it.

My instinct, though, is that the loss of "part X" captions is primarily down to, as you said, sales to channels (both in the UK and abroad) which will insert more breaks than are already built into the programme.

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Simon Coward
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Simon Coward »

Also, I suppose the need to cater for differing numbers of ad-breaks was also responsible for the gradual reduction, over the years, of the practice of cross-fading to/from a caption (whether it be "[End of] Part/Act X" or just the programme title) and the straight cut you generally get nowadays. Although...

... while the visuals cut more decisively, the sound regularly still carries on / starts early, so I'm not sure how that helps.
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Mike S
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Mike S »

Why did we have multiple 'End of part...' captions in the old days anyway? Why was it felt that the viewer needed to know which part they were on?

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Scary
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Scary »

David Smith wrote: It's recently occurred to me that TV shows on commercial channels never seem to go to the break with a caption saying "End of Part...whatever" any more. Instead you invariably just get a slide with the show's logo.

Anybody any idea why this is? Maybe because shows are increasingly sold to different channels where they'll have more breaks?
I wouldn't have thought so because if there is a slide it's normally channel branded so it won't be one it's supplied with.

In fact I would say that more common these days is for a channel just to go straight to a break bumper style animation, slides saying the name of the film/programme are rare.

Presumably it's just cheaper and easier to make a slide that says the name of the film rather than multiple ones for each part

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Simon Coward
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Simon Coward »

Mike S wrote:Why did we have multiple 'End of part...' captions in the old days anyway? Why was it felt that the viewer needed to know which part they were on?
Was it ever for the benefit of someone other than the home viewer? Did the captions - especially the "end of part X" ones - help with the localised playing out of commercials inside a networked programme, for instance?
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Mickey
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Mickey »

Mike S wrote:Why did we have multiple 'End of part...' captions in the old days anyway? Why was it felt that the viewer needed to know which part they were on?
Have you ever needed to know which number chapter you're on in a book? It's just the way that things are done.

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Re: End of Part X

Post by Brock »

Scary wrote: Presumably it's just cheaper and easier to make a slide that says the name of the film rather than multiple ones for each part
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall "End of Part..." captions ever being used for films. It was only with made-for-TV programmes. I took it for granted at the time but looking back now it seems rather curious. Why the distinction?

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Simon Coward
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Simon Coward »

Brock wrote:
Scary wrote: Presumably it's just cheaper and easier to make a slide that says the name of the film rather than multiple ones for each part
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall "End of Part..." captions ever being used for films. It was only with made-for-TV programmes. I took it for granted at the time but looking back now it seems rather curious. Why the distinction?
It was - and is - something that's still done in the theatre. I don't mean the captions, but numbering the acts and "there will be an interval of twenty minutes between acts 1 and 2 ", that kind of thing. Perhaps it's a hangover from that with of a lot of early television owing a debt to the theatre - both in terms of drama being much more play-centric but also much of light entertainment's origins coming from variety.

But that doesn't explain why made-for-TV but not film - other than the point that even for long films where some cinemas might have provided an interval mid-way through, you didn't get that kind of thing at the pictures.
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Mike S »

Here's a poser: what's the record number of 'parts' that have ever been captioned within a single broadcast?

I remember at Xmas 1987 when C4 ran an omnibus-edit of the Brookside spin-off Damon and Debbie - I forget the duration, but it was well over two hours. My memory is that we got at least as far as 'End Of Part 5/Part 6'.

Andy Marriott
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Andy Marriott »

Today most programmes (certainly the ones that I transmit) are "soft-parted". Meaning that the programme is complete, in one lump and the computer playlist simply chops it up as its transmitted. This allows more commercial breaks to be inserted at peak times and fewer for late night screenings etc. It also means that the slides/bumpers in and out of the breaks have to be scheduled, (no longer part and parcel of the programme), far easier to have the same one over and over again than to try to keep track of it all with end of part 1, 2, 3 etc. Another often used advantage of soft-parting is that you can miss out chunks of the programme if it is too long for the slot. Nasty.

Most TV schedules are put together by office girls with almost no interest in the channel, hence the complete lack of any kind of creativity these days!

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Re: End of Part X

Post by ctraynor »

Mike S wrote:Why did we have multiple 'End of part...' captions in the old days anyway? Why was it felt that the viewer needed to know which part they were on?
I hadn't really thought about that, I admit. They should have just had captions saying "break" and "next bit".

I remember an early re-run of Thunderbirds in Granada circa 1968/'69 when episodes were cut into chunks of mini-episodes of 20 minutes or something and shown on successive days. To top and tail each mini-episode they showed that still photo of Thunderbird 2 landing with its boosters firing at an airport with a snatch of the theme tune over it.

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Re: End of Part X

Post by GarethR »

It suddenly occurred to me that some programmes didn't number their parts at least as far back as the mid-80s. The one that leapt most prominently to mind was Spitting Image, which just used the programme logo over music stings for its EOP/BOPs. There must have been more.

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Re: End of Part X

Post by brigham »

Weren't some of them amusing? I think the break in 'Who do you do?' read 'Half Done'.

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Simon Coward
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Simon Coward »

brigham wrote:Weren't some of them amusing? I think the break in 'Who do you do?' read 'Half Done'.
or "Do Not Adjust Your Set - Yet"?
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BobDylan'sGrandmother
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Re: End of Part X

Post by BobDylan'sGrandmother »

I'm thinking... if they didn't do this while they showed films (not in my memory anyway) what's the point in doing it ONLY during tv programmes?

However, I did used to think it could add something to programmes such as The Sweeney- when we'd have a tense episode (for example in a hostage situation) as we'd feel as if the clock was ticking against us. Maybe that was because I was young though (do I remember my parents saying 'what part are we on?' - I'm fairly sure I do.)

Just a thought! :)

David Smith
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Re: End of Part X

Post by David Smith »

Belated bump to this - noticed Charlie Brooker's Black Mirror last night used numbered part break bumpers; no idea if the series does normally...

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Doom Patrol
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Doom Patrol »

I've always assumed it was because TV used to be produced on a more theatrical basis, rather like the acts in a play. Nowadays, with increased flexibility and changes in style we have, what is, probably a more filmic style on larger productions and it is less appropriate. Alternately TV is made for many different markets these days and might be cut differently. Which could, I suppose, make fixed acts redundant.

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Re: End of Part X

Post by Nick Cooper 625 »

David Smith wrote:Belated bump to this - noticed Charlie Brooker's Black Mirror last night used numbered part break bumpers; no idea if the series does normally...
I did notice this when I was trimming the recording down last night. I'd have to check my earlier off-airs to see if it was done on the previous episodes, but I have a feeling it might have been.
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Nick Cooper 625
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Nick Cooper 625 »

Doom Patrol wrote:I've always assumed it was because TV used to be produced on a more theatrical basis, rather like the acts in a play. Nowadays, with increased flexibility and changes in style we have, what is, probably a more filmic style on larger productions and it is less appropriate. Alternately TV is made for many different markets these days and might be cut differently. Which could, I suppose, make fixed acts redundant.
I've been transferring a lot of documentaries from S-/VHS to DVD-RAM recently, and it's quite jarring going from 50 minute programmes with just two advert breaks, to those with three. Secret History is one series that crosses the transition, but it's notable that before and after they were never consistent in using "End of..." captions, or just generic ones.
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Simon Coward »

Up to and including season 16 (2009) Time Team had specific "Part II" and "Part III" captions on the break bumpers that led into the second and third segments of each programme, but just generic bumpers at the ends of parts 1 and 2 (or rather I and II). I think they were dropped at the same time as the number of breaks were increased from two to three.
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Wakey
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Re: End of Part X

Post by Wakey »

Last week's Black Mirror: White Christmas, discussed elsewhere on this forum, used the 'Part X' etc style ad bumper captions, so the form isn't entirely dead, though was probably deliberate affectation in this case.

David Smith
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Re: End of Part X

Post by David Smith »

Apologies for the nearly-a-year-later bump, but interestingly The Sound of Music Live currently on ITV has "End of Part" without even a number...

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Re: End of Part X

Post by Mark »

David Smith wrote:Apologies for the nearly-a-year-later bump, but interestingly The Sound of Music Live currently on ITV has "End of Part" without even a number...
Yes, noticed that, almost nostalgic, I wonder why no numbers though?...maybe because of something like 9 breaks, perhaps.

Enjoyed it though, it was very well done, a very nice production.
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Re: End of Part X

Post by prisoner5 »

Would have been better if it read "end of act" then perhaps a number.

David Smith
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Re: End of Part X

Post by David Smith »

prisoner5 wrote:Would have been better if it read "end of act" then perhaps a number.
Probably wouldn't have been strictly accurate though as regards the "book".

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Re: End of Part X

Post by Brian F »

A late thought on this, but I wonder if the (now released on DVD) comedy show "End of Part One" made it seem outdated as used for fun and people felt it best to drop the idea of numbering breaks.

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Re: End of Part X

Post by brigham »

prisoner5 wrote:Would have been better if it read "end of act" then perhaps a number.
It would have been better without the whole thing, if they couldn't be bothered to put the numbers in.
How did the next part begin? "Part", perhaps?

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