D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

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Robin Davies
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D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Robin Davies »

I see that ITV now has a DOG as part of their general "re-branding".
So the rot has now infected even ye olde terrestrial channels...

Xrds1895
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Xrds1895 »

I was just about to pop in to resurrect "D.O.G. s**t all over the screen" (surely the most succesful think I have ever posted on the MC, even if it was a title rather than a comment) to point this out.

How bloody sad that ITV has finally reached this low. I suppose it was only a matter of time (Scottish TV have had it for some time) but, really, what is the need? We all have an onscreen guide that appears. Surely that's enough? Or is this for viewers who might forget which channel they are watching whilst watching the show itself?

Either way this is a real shame. No consideration for the programme itself in the same way that credit shrinking shows utter contempt for the programme makers.

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Doom Patrol
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Doom Patrol »

All true. But TV is changing all the time and it's a trend that's only going to continue. I tend to think of it more as wallpaper these days. Sometimes you'll come across an interesting flock pattern, but that's about it.

perov
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by perov »

My wife said our wallpaper is flocked, but I think it's good for another year or two.

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Ross
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Ross »

They may as well have a caption saying "We think our viewers are stupid".

I'd like to make a dramatic gesture and say I'll never watch the channel, but that would be like me saying that I'm boycotting Afghanistan or Chad. It's not like I'm going there anyway.

Cole
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Cole »

I suppose the train of thought is that all the other ITV channels have DOGs so the main one joins the ranks. Doesn't make it right though.

Interestingly, BBC One HD has dropped theirs.

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Ross
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Post by Ross »

Cole wrote:Interestingly, BBC One HD has dropped theirs.
A rare example of the BBC wising up rather than dumbing down.

JezR
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by JezR »

It is at least considerably smaller and dimmer than the last one. I presume we are talking about ITV HD as there can't be anyone left watching SD these days ...

Robin Davies
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Robin Davies »

JezR wrote:It is at least considerably smaller and dimmer than the last one. I presume we are talking about ITV HD as there can't be anyone left watching SD these days ...
No it's the main SD channel (ITV1 as was).
The HD one (and presumably all the other ITV channels) already had DOGs.

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Doom Patrol
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Doom Patrol »

Ross wrote:They may as well have a caption saying "We think our viewers are stupid".
It's just business though isn't it? Certainly in the case of ITV. Lets face it it's all about product. It's rare these days for them to produce anything with any bite. I sometimes think there must be a secret rule book of ITV blandness somewhere which all programmes have to adhere too. I've found their programming curiously neutered for a very long time and I'm afraid I could care less if they want to write all over the top of it.

JezR
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by JezR »

Robin Davies wrote:
JezR wrote:It is at least considerably smaller and dimmer than the last one. I presume we are talking about ITV HD as there can't be anyone left watching SD these days ...
No it's the main SD channel (ITV1 as was).
The HD one (and presumably all the other ITV channels) already had DOGs.
Er, yes. But I haven't watched ITV(1) in SD for a long, long time. The DOG on that used to be hideous, this is a relative improvement, but only that.

Those with STV and UTV have even more to complain about.

Robin Davies
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Robin Davies »

JezR wrote:
Robin Davies wrote:
JezR wrote:It is at least considerably smaller and dimmer than the last one. I presume we are talking about ITV HD as there can't be anyone left watching SD these days ...
No it's the main SD channel (ITV1 as was).
The HD one (and presumably all the other ITV channels) already had DOGs.
Er, yes. But I haven't watched ITV(1) in SD for a long, long time. The DOG on that used to be hideous, this is a relative improvement, but only that.
I don't understand. SD ITV1 had no DOG before.
Since (I think) last week it does.

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Ross
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Post by Ross »

Doom Patrol wrote:I've found their programming curiously neutered for a very long time and I'm afraid I could care less if they want to write all over the top of it.
Well, yes. A few years ago I'd be fuming about this. Nowadays? Meh...

Steve Williams
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Post by Steve Williams »

JezR wrote:I presume we are talking about ITV HD as there can't be anyone left watching SD these days ...
I'm pretty sure most people are still watching in SD, actually.

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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Nick Cooper 625 »

Steve Williams wrote:
JezR wrote:I presume we are talking about ITV HD as there can't be anyone left watching SD these days ...
I'm pretty sure most people are still watching in SD, actually.
I certainly am, but then I'm still watching a CRT. It is 16:9, though - obviously I'm not a complete Luddite.
"Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo." [Wells]

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Post by Mike S »

Nick Cooper 625 wrote: I certainly am, but then I'm still watching a CRT. It is 16:9, though - obviously I'm not a complete Luddite.
Same here. It just won't die.

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Roll ACR
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Roll ACR »

I must say that I absolutely LOVE the new ITV re-brand. And the D.O.G. is very small, very transparent, and right on the cusp of 16:9 safe area, let alone caption safe! What's all the fuss about?

The new trails and idents, plus a bit of fundamental rethinking of how junctions are executed, has eliminated most of my bug-bear irritations from modern day, clunky, "visibly automated" presentation control. The way the trails dovetail together with the circular wipe to the dot of the i in itv. The 1 sec black event into network shows is now a fade down and up instead of a nasty cut. The regional news titles start from a white frame which blends with the preceding bumper and also serves to take the curse off instant-start titles. I also, after consideration and reflection, actually like the new logo. The new ITV3 idents are beautiful! I could go on, but I won't, as I'm clearly in a minority on here. But I honestly think that as an in-house redesign it's bloody brilliant, put's to shame the re-designs of 1998 and 2006 and hats off to ITV Creative.

Like others have said, there's bugger-all to watch on ITV nowadays. Indeed, quite why they've recently made such a fuss on air about their Children's and Current Affairs heritage - merely highlighting the fact they do neither properly now - is anyone's guess. I don't particularly watch ITV, except for still tuning in to Meridian to see Fred, cos it's just comforting as he's been there ever since I can remember. Apart from that ITV could shut down tomorrow and I'd not miss it as a viewer - although my coffers, as a freelance cameraman, would not be so swollen. However, I do like the new design :-)

JezR
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by JezR »

Steve Williams wrote:
JezR wrote:I presume we are talking about ITV HD as there can't be anyone left watching SD these days ...
I'm pretty sure most people are still watching in SD, actually.
I have of course been writing in this thread with a grin fixed to my face - but it is true I haven't watched ITV(1) SD for over a year.

Robin Davies
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Robin Davies »

Roll ACR wrote:I must say that I absolutely LOVE the new ITV re-brand. And the D.O.G. is very small, very transparent, and right on the cusp of 16:9 safe area, let alone caption safe! What's all the fuss about?
I wouldn't mind a rebrand if the logos were kept where they should be - in between the programmes.
Some DOGs are worse than others but all are abominations and all should be exterminated.
The one that really bugs me is the one on BBC4 which, content-wise, is my favourite channel. It would be a step in the right direction if they would at least kill the DOG a few seconds after the start of the programme like the Sky channels do.
We're certainly living in a topsy-turvey world where Sky actually has more respect for programme presentation than the BBC.

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Ross
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Post by Ross »

Well said, Robin. I entirely agree.

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Scary
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Post by Scary »

Roll ACR wrote:I must say that I absolutely LOVE the new ITV re-brand. And the D.O.G. is very small, very transparent, and right on the cusp of 16:9 safe area, let alone caption safe! What's all the fuss about?
Indeed, it's so small and off to the left that I didn't even notice they had a channel bug until I saw mention of it online. All I can see is just the 'v'..... my CRT telly's always shifted the picture to the left when fed with an RGB signal

The ITV rebrand is growing on me, it's the little things like the transitions between the trails which make the difference... it's actually quite well done

Cole
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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Cole »

Sorry to revive this old thread - and I hope it's the correct one to use - but I've noticed a trend in current US series where they play the names of actors, execs, producers etc at the bottom of the screen from the start of and up to ten minutes into the programme.

Does this qualify as extra DOG s**t, or would this be a novel way of avoiding the credit squeezing?

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Post by GarethR »

Cole wrote:Sorry to revive this old thread - and I hope it's the correct one to use - but I've noticed a trend in current US series where they play the names of actors, execs, producers etc at the bottom of the screen from the start of and up to ten minutes into the programme
There's nothing remotely new about this, it's been happening for decades - plenty of 70s US drama series did it, way before credit-squeezing. It's simply borrowing a technique frequently used by movies.

When you say it happens "up to ten minutes into the programme", I'm assuming you mean there's a cold open (which can last up to five minutes or even longer in some shows) leading to a suitably dramatic point, then the opening titles, then the first post-titles scene, which is where the credits usually start appearing for a minute or so over action.

Cole
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Post by Cole »

It was genuinely something I've only noticed recently. It was quite acute IIRC on an episode of Revolution where the credits lasted for quite a while after the starting titles. However, this may have been an exception as I remember remarking about how many executive producers the show was carrying. I may have exaggerated a little with ten minutes, but it did seem like it!

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Mickey
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Post by Mickey »

Gareth's quite right, and it's gone on for years. I remember my father grumbling about it when we used to watch the American imports back in the eighties. Back then you'd have your big opening titles, with the names of the stars, and then as the show began, the guest stars would run over the action, usually after the opening plot sting. So yes, it could be up to around ten minutes into the episode. Less common then to have writers and producers as well, but as credit sequences get shorter (a reaction to shorter episode times, obviously) it doesn't surprise me that we're seeing more such credits during the episode itself. To be honest it doesn't bother me in the slightest, but then I am very used to it.

Dancing, animatronic "Next on!" signs are an absolute curse, obviously. Some of them are gigantic, and can really ruin a scene. I have no objection at all to credits though. I've never seen any that I thought were needlessly distracting.

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Post by Juswuh »

I just looked at a random recent episode of Law and Order: SVU and the final opening credit for that appears at 9:46, and the show's total running time is 41:28. There are also ten credited producers, each with a separate screen credit. But it's been like that with US TV for a long time - I remember episodes of Quincy where the credits dribbled interminably along at the beginning.

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Post by RayB »

Whilst we're at it, I've noticed a few US shows are starting to put hash-tags on-screen during the programme, relevant to the current action. I know it's almost the norm now for shows to put a tag up once or twice but they generally remain the same. I'm talking about tags that change with the story; it makes me wonder if people are watching the drama or are too busy chasing comments on social media?

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Mickey
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Post by Mickey »

You're behind the times, Ray! You're not supposed to concentrate on the programme anymore. TV is a social experience. You watch whilst typing. I see this all the time. Actors conduct live tweeting sessions during programmes. Twitter will often have a popular show trending whilst it's on air, because people are tweeting as they watch. Those who aren't on Twitter are on Tumblr (some manage both at once). Chatting on the IMDb forums whilst watching is also popular.

Of course what then happens is that people miss important story points, be it just the subtle reactions of characters, or even bloody great chunks of dialogue. They moan that the show is badly written, or full of plot holes, etc. They ask witless questions on internet forums about plot points, because they were too busy chatting to pay attention. Why TV companies encouage this so enthusiastically I have no idea, but apparently having your show trend on Twitter is more important than having it understood?

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Ross
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Post by Ross »

The two buzzwords are interaction and engagement. It's as though TV companies don't care if you like or dislike a show as long as you're engaging with it, ie. Writing about it on the Internet.

Concentrating on one thing is so jejune. If it can't be done whilst updating your Facebook status, then it's not worth doing.

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Re: D.O.G. s**t all over the screen

Post by Juswuh »

Much of what's gone wrong with Doctor Who in the last few years comes I think from playing to the internet audience. The last series in particular often felt as if it was being written to goose a crowd of idiots on Tumblr.

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