Endeavour

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Andy Marriott
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Endeavour

Post by Andy Marriott »

This week's episode, set in 1968/69 featured 746 model telephones (introduced in 1970!), scattered about an old police station which it appears is ear-marked for closure, so more likely lots of black bakelite than grey plastic.
And the recording of "Jeux sans frontieres" by Southern TV in Oxford (on what sounded like a digibeta machine).
Is it set in an alternative reality?

drmih
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Re: Endeavour

Post by drmih »

Does it really matter that they may have been out by a year - I understand glaring errors but a year or so in 50! Apparently (being a Google warrior) the 746 was introduced in 1967, and by 1970 was available to all customers (they seem to know what they're talking about: http://www.britishtelephones.com/t746.htm). Perhaps the police had priority, and I'm sure many people who have worked for large organisations have seen new kit arrive only to be followed by closures / relocations (senior staff about to make major changes don't tend to tell all departments because it's secret until announced) - I doubt the program makers thought it through like that, but give them a break - it's hardly a Spitfire in WW1!

fatcat
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Re: Endeavour

Post by fatcat »

Warning a very nerdy post about telephones.

I didn't see it..

but could it have been a 706? these were circa 59- 67 very similar to the 746 but had the alphabet dial for calling a district operator with the first 3 letters of it's name...By 1970 the majority of the UK was on STD (subscriber trunk dialing) in which you only needed a numerical code to dial anywhere in the country.
You sometimes see in 60s films (set in a phone box) an advert promoting the wonders of 'STD' in which you can actually call anyone with just a number WOW!

The first Trimphones are now sort after because they had an illuminous dial for poor light situations- however they were slightly radioactive, and although quite safe in the phone, they applied Murphy's Law that if it ever broke the gas used could escape ..these were withdrawn.

Useful site here.

http://www.antiquetelephones.co.uk/cont ... uk/d5.html



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Andy Marriott
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Re: Endeavour

Post by Andy Marriott »

It was definitely a 746.

As for giving the makers a break, why? If you are producing a period piece you should research the details, and let's face it research is now easier than it has ever been. A handful of years ago you would have needed to contact countless groups and expert individuals to get it right. Now a spotty yoof can do it online in a few hours.

Endeavour occasionally makes a point of telling you the year, so I would expect it to look like that year. Its not like Heartbeat which was always sometime in the sixties, with a terrible mix of early '60's beehives and colour tv licence posters in the post office.

TV aerials are another problem. Many shows including Endeavour make no attempt to hide the modern hardware. Yes, UHF transmissions had begun but the majority still had band 1 and 3 installations.

Why does nobody care about detail?

drmih
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Re: Endeavour

Post by drmih »

Because 99.9% of us don't notice, never mind care. If it's factually significant and could lead to a misunderstanding (for instance giving a pupil / student a wrong impression which may effect an exam etc), then care should be taken. However, taking your point of a phone being wrong by perhaps a year (and the reference I found seemed to suggest that they were available from 1967 onwards), if specified correctly (and apparently it would have looked the same except having a lettered ring around the dial) might there not have been a cost implication? I don't wish to see programme makers having to spend unnecessary money getting the minutiae absolutely correct, CGI-ing out aerials / using second choice locations etc - 'we only made 5 rather than 6 episodes, but we researched every phone and door-knocker for accuracy'!

I love the fact that a phone and aerial nerd has the balls to make fun of a 'spotty yoof' adept on the internet:)

fatcat
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Re: Endeavour

Post by fatcat »

You both mention getting it off -online.

I think that is the point ..these days it should be much easier to get things right..I have heard productions where they have even used an American bell to indicate an old phone is ringing.

But knowing these productions are slung together ephemeral bits of fluff actually gives comfort that the other axes they try to grind in these shows.. like all police being misogynistic,drunken racists way back when... should also be taken with a pinch of salt.
However I think a lot more care and thought went into the making of the George Gently show .

brigham
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Re: Endeavour

Post by brigham »

It's easy to get right, IF you can be bothered.
A lot of directors aren't. They either don't know, or don't care.
There's a third type, rarer, who will knowingly put in an anachronism 'because he likes it'.

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stearn
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Re: Endeavour

Post by stearn »

If only a spotty yoof were able to do the research quickly and accurately. Research, and I mean good research rather than just typing 'phone 1969' into google and seeing what comes up, takes effort, skill and some amount of initial knowledge and online isn't always correct.

The internet is limited in the amount of information it has - I know this sounds stupid - but when I first started using the web whilst at University in the mid 90s, there were all sorts of very useful and well researched websites - usually created by those who had a pet interest and wanted a channel to exhibit it. Over time content has been lost as people give up, free hosting is withdrawn, or their hard work is copied wholesale by someone else and packaged up for sale (a few people I know gave up on their sites completely when they found it had been added to wikipedia - I gave up on updating many of my sites when I saw others lift the information and pass it off as their own research). There is also a sort of ground zero, where anything existing before the internet (or more likely digitally produced content) either doesn't exist or, if it does, in very reduced form due to one size fits all copyright action.

The web has also moved on, so where people might have made their own site, they might now blog, or just tweet amongst like-minded people. Even here has far less traffic these days than it did, say, 5 years ago, as there are numerous facebook groups catering for niche programming. Whilst not exactly relevant, I have also noticed when searching for images that the majority of the results now turn up in Pinterest, which I have no wish to sign up for, and it makes finding the source very difficult - that coupled with Getty wanting to own every image, ever. In short, the web is now seen firstly as a revenue stream, with an information repository way down the list. One sad by-product has been the decimation of many libraries and archives because managers are under the impression that everything is on google and they no longer need to worry about the expense of having trained staff, costly storage, or books, as who has time to read a book.

TVT_Dave
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Re: Endeavour

Post by TVT_Dave »

Not quite to do with Endeavour, but a recent episode of Father Brown (set in the early 1950s) had characters listening to a programme on the Light Programme which included the pips. I nearly threw something at the TV when the pips played were five short and one long - which didn't come in until 1972!!
Dave B.

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smorodina
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Re: Endeavour

Post by smorodina »

Just been watching the one with 'Jeux sans frontieres' which was being filmed by Southern Television. Apart from this being, I seem to recall, a BBC show, I would have though Oxford was well outside of Southern's area?
Andy Hurwitz

wittoner
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Re: Endeavour

Post by wittoner »

Possibly the line of least resistance in that there would be no legal and/or commercial issues in depicting a defunct company even if it was factually inaccurate.

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Ian Wegg
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Re: Endeavour

Post by Ian Wegg »

More likely that it's because a fully restored and equipped Southern OB of the correct period is available for hire:
http://www.golden-agetv.co.uk/equipment.php?ExhbtID=95

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Focus II
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Re: Endeavour

Post by Focus II »

Andy Marriott wrote:It was definitely a 746.

As for giving the makers a break, why? If you are producing a period piece you should research the details, and let's face it research is now easier than it has ever been. A handful of years ago you would have needed to contact countless groups and expert individuals to get it right. Now a spotty yoof can do it online in a few hours.

Endeavour occasionally makes a point of telling you the year, so I would expect it to look like that year. Its not like Heartbeat which was always sometime in the sixties, with a terrible mix of early '60's beehives and colour tv licence posters in the post office.

TV aerials are another problem. Many shows including Endeavour make no attempt to hide the modern hardware. Yes, UHF transmissions had begun but the majority still had band 1 and 3 installations.

Why does nobody care about detail?
I certainly do! While some errors might not be avoidable, eg: I don't think a budget could allow for the fixing of B1 and 3 aerials and to remove the UHF ones then having to undo the work. Genuine B1 and 3 aerials might also be impossible to obtain! However, careful photography would allow the UHF aerials not being evident. They must do this for many period dramas.

Some errors are avoidable however such as the telephone you mentioned.

I can't speak for Endeavour as I haven't watched it but I became irritated by avoidable errors in the film, "The Damned United", set in the '60s there was a '70s coach by registration (could have easily been altered) and his TV was a 625-line UHF single standard B&W model with the Thorn 1500 chassis, first introduced in late 1969! They're plenty of good working dual standard 1400s about which would have been more appropriate.

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