The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

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Beaker
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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Beaker »

Well, I loved Saturday's episode.

Scary, funny and I had a nasty attack of hay-fever at the end.

I am really enjoying this series and Capaldi is terrific, I have taken to him straight away wheras it took a while for me to warm to Matt Smith.

Has there ever been a show more loved and hated in equal measure? At least one that the haters still watch religiously despite their protestations.
If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Simon36 »

It's true. Dr Who has something in common with Marillion in that sense. And actually quite a few people are fans of both.

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Mickey
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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Mickey »

Capaldi's terrific, isn't he. I'm really enjoying his Doctor. I seem fated to be forever slightly grumpy at them all for not being Paterson Joseph, but nonetheless, he's very good indeed. Nice to have an older person in the role, and I did love the 'Not the hugging!' bit this week. I'm afraid Clara seems to be the stumbling block for me. "Listen" was a fairly okay episode, but for me it all got ruined at the end by the scene on Gallifrey. I've never taken to her anyway, so maybe that's why her insertion into every major point of the Doctor's life irritates me even more than it would have done otherwise. And that scene was interminable. I kept hoping it would stop, but it wouldn't. On top of the fact that it was annoying me anyway, just for what it was, they kept building it up and up as though they couldn't stop piling on the dramatics.

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Beaker
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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Beaker »

Simon36 wrote:It's true. Dr Who has something in common with Marillion in that sense. And actually quite a few people are fans of both.
He he! I am, of course, a huge fan of Fish, and his era of Marillion.

"So here I am once more, in the playground of the broken hearts...." I guess a few Who fans feel that way sometimes...
If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Mothy »

Richard Charles Skryngestone wrote:I was referring to the original Ninth Doctor. Cornell was the big cheese for the Shalka Doctor, and his planned arcs etc. The webcasts, novels and the comics would all have had to follow his ideas. Had the television show with Davies not emerged when it did, Doctor Who would have been Paul Cornell's vision. Makes you think, eh?
Well, I don't really think of those as being comparable with a TV series. There's no guarantee that the Shalka thing would have led to anything much other than a few more webcasts or novels in the same style. As the series was at that time nothing much more than a faltering novel line and Big Finish and a few other odds and ends, which is how I'd categorise the thing Cornell was doing, I don't think it would have made much difference what he did. It was already a fairly rarefied pool, with various merchandise ranges which plenty of people opted not to bother with anyway.
Apparently, Deep Breath was 6.8 overnight-9.17 final, Into the Dalek was 5.2 overnight-7.29 final, Robot of Sherwood was 5.2 overnight-7.28 final, and Listen was 4.8 overnight with the final still TBC.

Now, you may say "only 0.4m less than the 3rd's overnight got", but that' still quite a drop. And considering that we're just a few weeks in, to drop from the original 6.8 overnight to 4.8 overnight should tell you something.
I was responding to the "steadily falling" description, when so far it's been more of a significant drop between the 1st and 2nd episodes and not that much change since then. It's not that unheard of for the first episode of a run to do significantly better than much of the following ones either.
Colin Baker's first year fell far less drastically than this
Colin Baker's first year had its episodes placed hence relative to the Top 100 most watched programmes per week.

Attack 1: 71
Attack 2: 104
Vengeance 1: 110
Vengeance 2: 108
Mark 1: 111
Mark 2: 84
Two 1: 92
Two 2: 90
Two 3: 66
Timelash 1: 69
Timelash 2: 79
Revelation 1: 65
Revelation 2: 58

The first three episodes shown in the current series have all, I understand, got into the Top 10 for the week - though I don't know if the ITV HD figures for the last of those have been finalised, so the third's placing may still be provisional.

Any attempt to get it onto ratings could do with considering what the rest of the television looks like in the current situation. According to Barb, the top tens for BBC1 and ITV (I haven't included anything from the other channels, as they all come well below even the lowest of the following figures) for the week ending 7 September were these:

1 The Great British Bake Off - 9.95m
2 Strictly Come Dancing - 9.16m
3 EastEnders - 7.3m
4 Doctor Who - 7.28m
5 EastEnders - 6.49m
6 EastEnders - 6.47m
7 In The Club - 5.84m
8 New Tricks - 5.82m
9 EastEnders - 5.45m
10 Our Zoo - 5.17m

1 The X Factor - 8.08m
2 Coronation Street - 7.23m
3 Coronation Street - 7.07m
4 The X Factor - 7.03m
5 Coronation Street - 6.47m
6 Coronation Street - 6.43m
7 Coronation Street - 6m
8 Coronation Street - 5.92m
9 Emmerdale - 5.58m
10 Emmerdale - 5.3m

So, if you want a reason for why people aren't reacting the same way they did in 1985, there it is - it's not, so far at least, really a very comparable landscape. Yes, they've fallen since the first episode but, so far anyway, in a way that's well within range of reasonably acceptable for a programme.

Whether they'll fall further - who knows? I'm not going to predict anything. If they do, they do, and even if it does end up crashing completely, that's not really my problem - I'm not expecting it to last forever whatever happens, and whether it ends this year or in ten or twenty years' time or whenever, that's no big deal to me in itself.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Juswuh »

Well this week's episode was merely convoluted and pointless.

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Mickey
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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Mickey »

Most television is pointless! I thought it was fun.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Simon36 »

Juswuh wrote:Well this week's episode was merely convoluted and pointless.
I only had one eye on it but the pre-title sequence moment with the phone certainly made me jump! Bloody rubbish monster though and seen in bright lighting too, made me think of the John Nathan-Turner era.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by videoking »

I enjoyed it but still haven't quite figured out the point of the plot.

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Richard Charles Skryngestone
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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Richard Charles Skryngestone »

I thought Time Heist was good. Not Holmes-Era good, but far far better than the rubbish that was served up the previous four weeks. This is the first episode of Series 8 that I actually enjoyed. However, it looks like next week's episode is set at Coal Hill School....
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cdnbob
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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by cdnbob »

After the disastrous first two episodes, I just haven't been motivated enough to want to watch any more. I have to be honest in that I really think after 30+ years as a fan, I've finally gone off Doctor Who. I can think of numerous other current shows I find far more interesting and far better written.

drmih
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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by drmih »

cdnbob wrote:After the disastrous first two episodes, I just haven't been motivated enough to want to watch any more. I have to be honest in that I really think after 30+ years as a fan, I've finally gone off Doctor Who. I can think of numerous other current shows I find far more interesting and far better written.
Well it was the next obvious position for someone who no longer watches it to come to the thread to complain about the writing! I think it has got better week by week and really works for me. As a 50+ years fan I can say that when you've been through the dross from late Baker / Davison onwards that it's great nowadays.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by videoking »

The first series with Chris Eccleston was ok and I'll give RTD points because the show was re-establishing itself. 90% of of the David Tennant era was above average. I give a D- to the Matt Smith Era was it was barely palatable. Peter Capaldi's reign seems very promising if Moffat does go off the rails and allows his writers to do their thing without interfering. Sometimes I think that the writers Moffat hires are more rooted in traditional Who and now how to write more than Moffat himself.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Mark »

I didn't think much of the story to "Listen", but the absence of 'Action', was very welcome, a deliberate move away from the usual 'Action series for toddlers', that defines Nu-Who, only fans would have got the barn connection, though.

"Time Heist" ( terrible title, sounds like a Bruce Willis film) was back to usual, just didn't really care about it, another box ticker, Peter Capaldi is excellent, I just wish they would give him something better to work with.
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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by videoking »

As much as I wanted to hate the episode because of the back story of Clara's romance I really enjoyed the episode. Capaldi's portrayal of The Doctor as an arrogant, snobbish goofball is really growing on me.

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Richard Charles Skryngestone
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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Richard Charles Skryngestone »

The Caretaker was mediocre. Capaldi is far too good for this poor writing. Of course, considering Series 8 has also had Deep Breath, Into the Dalek and Listen, being mediocre makes it one of the better ones.

I honestly believe it's time for Moffat, Roberts, Gatiss and everyone else too closely associated with Series 5-8 to step aside. Let someone else take the show in a new direction, not the same old "timey wimey" content that Moffat has been championing for years now.
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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Juswuh »

Switched off after the titles. The first minute or so was enough.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Bob Richardson »

Richard Charles Skryngestone wrote:The Caretaker was mediocre. Capaldi is far too good for this poor writing. Of course, considering Series 8 has also had Deep Breath, Into the Dalek and Listen, being mediocre makes it one of the better ones.

I honestly believe it's time for Moffat, Roberts, Gatiss and everyone else too closely associated with Series 5-8 to step aside. Let someone else take the show in a new direction, not the same old "timey wimey" content that Moffat has been championing for years now.
Agreed. Dump anyone who claims to have watched the old series and is really "passionate" about Dr Who. They are poisoning what could be a great, entertaining drama series with their "kooky" humour and threadbare plots. Move on please...
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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Private Frazer »

People have always, now and again, been killed in Doctor Who. Whether exterminated in The Daleks, killed in a sword fight in The Crusade or even by some scary monster it still seems pretty harmless. But I felt that last weeks episode, Time Heist, the man loosing his brain was a bit gruesome for kids.

However, I loved The Caretaker and I think it's now my favourite one with the new Doctor. Coal Hill School, people discovering the Tardis, the relationship between The Doctor, Clara and her Boyfriend, all made for a top episode!
"Now listen you guys, I don't wish to alarm you but there's some pretty weird things going on out here..."

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by DuncanS »

I've thought the last 2 episodes have really shown how the format of the show can be stretched - first off a heist movie and then a romcom with added alien killing machine and the Doctor in the Robert De Niro circa Meet the Parents role.

They have been really entertaining and the best episodes of this run, it wouldnt be fun if they turned out those style of episodes every week but they dont they change the style and the tone and thats what makes the show refreshing.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Beaker »

DuncanS wrote:I've thought the last 2 episodes have really shown how the format of the show can be stretched - first off a heist movie and then a romcom with added alien killing machine and the Doctor in the Robert De Niro circa Meet the Parents role.

They have been really entertaining and the best episodes of this run, it wouldnt be fun if they turned out those style of episodes every week but they dont they change the style and the tone and thats what makes the show refreshing.
Agreed 100%

I really enjoyed this week'd episode and tha gag with the bow-tied teacher was very funny indeed.
If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by ctraynor »

With Coal Hill School looming large, I'm hoping against hope they'll bring in William Russell as Ian Chesterton, even if just to give out the school prizes. Even if they mess it up with too much gushy emoting. The chance was missed to bring him back in Mawdryn Undead in the early '80s because Russell wasn't available and we got the Brigadier in the unlikely role of an A-level maths teacher. History or geography were more the brig's subjects, I'd have thought.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Mickey »

ctraynor wrote:...we got the Brigadier in the unlikely role of an A-level maths teacher. History or geography were more the brig's subjects, I'd have thought.
Perhaps the reason why Twelve is finding it so impossible to get his head around the idea of a soldier being a maths teacher now? ;)

The problem with bringing in William Russell is that it was stated in SJA that Ian and Barbara have apparently not aged at all since their return. Why and how I have no idea. Easy enough to ignore I suppose, although one does wonder why they threw it in there to begin with. And how to approach the subject of Barbara? Say that she's dead, or handle her reunion with the Doctor off-screen?

It would be great to see him again though. I'm sure he could play his part in saving the world one more time.

Incidentally, William Russell's son Alfie (he goes by Alfie Enoch, which of course is William Russell's real surname) has just started a new TV series in the States. It's called "How To Get Away With Murder", and on the strength of the first episode, it looks to be worth watching. He looks so like his dad at times, it's uncanny.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by ctraynor »

I've not seen the SJA but I'm sure Mr Moffatt and co can concoct a way around the Sarah Jane Adventures thing you mention. They've already brought the Time Lords back from the dead which I thought they might do.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Tim Munro »

Mickey wrote:

The problem with bringing in William Russell is that it was stated in SJA that Ian and Barbara have apparently not aged at all since their return. Why and how I have no idea. Easy enough to ignore I suppose, although one does wonder why they threw it in there to begin with. And how to approach the subject of Barbara? Say that she's dead, or handle her reunion with the Doctor off-screen?
.
It's putting it rather strongly to say it's stated that Ian and Barbara have not aged at all. Sarah Jane says something to the effect that this is rumoured, or some people say that this is so, but it's pretty obvious she's not actually met them and is just repeating stuff she's read on the internet. So it can be very easily written off as internet b-s if necessary, it having been well established that there are some decidedly whacky websites devoted to the Doctor in the show's fictional universe. I seriously doubt RTD intended that line to be taken literally.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by videoking »

Bringing back William Russell to play Ian in a reunion episode would be pretty cool but if anything is planned it had better be soon as the man is not getting any younger.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Doom Patrol »

I must be alone in not feeling the love for this series and Peter Capaldi. It's not that it's good or bad. It's just somewhere in between. Average stories written averagely with an average Doctor. The whole ridiculous Danny and Clara thing is telegraphed and blatantly obvious. It's not even well done. I'm struggling to maintain my interest I must admit.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by cdnbob »

Doom Patrol wrote:I must be alone in not feeling the love for this series and Peter Capaldi. It's not that it's good or bad. It's just somewhere in between. Average stories written averagely with an average Doctor. The whole ridiculous Danny and Clara thing is telegraphed and blatantly obvious. It's not even well done. I'm struggling to maintain my interest I must admit.
I have to agree with you there DP. Of what I've seen of this season, I've found it to be so terribly terribly bland and dull - I think I'd even venture to say below average cobbled together crap - while I find Capaldi to be flat, dull and boring and I despite all I've tried to, I just can not warm to him in the part. I don't believe in him in the part and I've even gone so far as to say, I don't think he's that terribly good of an actor.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by Juswuh »

The stories have been so weak and dull - and so centred around Clara - that Capaldi hasn't really had a chance. I don't think any actor could have rescued the part.

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Re: The All-Purpose Current Doctor Who (2005-) Thread

Post by videoking »

Juswuh wrote:The stories have been so weak and dull - and so centred around Clara - that Capaldi hasn't really had a chance. I don't think any actor could have rescued the part.
I agree! The stories have been so focused upon Clara that The Doctor appears to be almost a secondary and supporting character to The Clara Show.

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