"Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

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Ross
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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Ross »

Are DOGs there for the audience's benefit?

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by GarethR »

No more so than adverts.

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Mike S »

Is it possible to ask a question about onscreen bugs that isn't loaded? Both 'Do you like to know what programme you're watching?' and 'Given the choice, would you rather the logo wasn't there?' would get the answer yes from most people. What would be a genuinely neutral way of asking about them?

I don't doubt that the research exists, incidentally, nor do I doubt that most viewers don't give a shit.

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Clive »

Perhaps it is to do with age.... Having grown up without DOGS or catch-ups every 15 minutes, then it is quite jarring to see how they have been applied over the past 10 years. I am sure a teenager sees it all as "business as usual" and they way things have always been.

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

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GarethR wrote:
Nick Cooper 625 wrote:As far as I know, only the BBC has ever - grudgingly - published research on DOGS, and an even then it was clear that a) the survey was designed to justify the practice, rather than work out whether they should be doing it in the first place, and b) the results were presented/spun contrary to the quoted figures accordingly. The most glaring omission was a simple and pretty obvious question of, "Would you rather watch a programme with a DOG or not?"
I've seen research that asked that very question, and only a minority of respondents replied with a definite "without" - the majority were largely noncommittal.
Forty-nine percent is a "minority." It's actually my recollection that the BBC research showed that around 40% registered some degree of irritation, which was far more than those who were positive (excepting those who were ambivalent).
One of the follow-up questions was to ask if the presence of a bug would make people actively switch off - with the majority answer "no". For me, that tallied pretty much precisely with my own purely anecdotal observations of how normal people watch TV.
Of course the corollary of people actively switching off because of a DOG would be those who do so if there wasn't one - no doubt vanishly small, if not non-existant.
The reality is that in the case of DOGS, it has everything to do with constant brand reinforcement
Absolutely it is. There aren't many organisations out there producing something completely unbranded. As I look around my desk now, just about everything electronic has a prominent logo on it.
Except that broadcasting is a service, not a product/thing in itself. Why does a broadcast have to keep reminding people which channel they're watching, when they're invariably already aware of the fact in the first place? I find that generally people chose to watch actual programmes, rather than automatically switch to any particular channel by Pavlovian habit.
"Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo." [Wells]

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

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Nick Cooper 625 wrote:Except that broadcasting is a service, not a product/thing in itself. Why does a broadcast have to keep reminding people which channel they're watching, when they're invariably already aware of the fact in the first place?
Indeed. It's curious that the one time where it's next to impossible to distinguish one channel from another - when they're showing commercials - is the one time that the DOGs disappear.
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Ross
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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Ross »

GarethR wrote:No more so than adverts.
No, although the adverts are necessary.

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Mike S »

GarethR wrote:As I've said before, I've sat in on focus groups and other means of data-gathering, and I've seen research that convinced broadcasters *not* to do something they'd thought might be a good idea. I've never seen anything suggestive of trying to lead people to give a specific answer.
Can I ask (and I'd appreciate your candour here, given your experience in the industry), how do people who run TV generally regard their audiences? Do they in fact think they're all braindead idiots and take the piss out of them in meetings etc, or is this a myth? How close did Python's 'The public are idiots' sketch about programme planners get it right?

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by GarethR »

Mike S wrote:how do people who run TV generally regard their audiences? Do they in fact think they're all braindead idiots and take the piss out of them in meetings etc, or is this a myth?
A myth. A beguiling one for a certain type of armchair expert in TV production, but most definitely a myth nonetheless.

Along with everybody else in the industry I've hooted at some of the spectacularly dense comments regularly made to duty offices and anybody who's ever had to answer the phones on a call-in show will have plenty of stories that don't show viewers/listeners in a good light, but then that sort of thing applies to any industry where you're dealing with the public.

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Brock »

I've just caught up with this programme, which was mostly very enjoyable. I thought it was a nice touch to include the Granada ident at the beginning and end of the programme in the "classic" style.

Can we have a moratorium on the use of the word "iconic", though? It was used to describe the building itself, Brideshead Revisited, Coronation Street, the "Up" series, the red letters on the outside... A word that's been over-used to the extent that it has very little significance left in my opinion.

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Ernest Grainger »

Well-spotted, Brock. When you watch these self-congratulatory programmes you really notice how often certain phrases are used. The programming to publicise the tram crash seemed to be littered with overuse of the word "amazing".

Regarding the ident, it looks like you have to go back to 2006 to find Granada programmes that used the "end board". Since then Coronation Street et al have just been 'ITV Studios/Productions', sadly.

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by prisoner5 »

Wished they had mentioned their Friday night drama series...The Liars, Big Breadwinner Hog, Mr Rose, Fellows, 'Room 17,to name only a few, all networked, some groundbreaking,all entertaining.Granada were never afraid to experiment.

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Simon36 »

Just watched this and thought it was total s***. Like the BBC's TWO programmes saying farewell to TV Centre, you have to hand it to them for exploiting their own idiocy I suppose but Peter Kay doing his tired old act really didn't work for me. Was it me or was there barely any mention of the drama Granada made?

And David Liddiment described The Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club as "postmodern before there was even modernism." WTF??!?!

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Roll ACR »

Couldn't agree more Simon. It's been interesting at work since the programme aired. Quite a number of people in the business and ex-Granada have absolutely slated it for being shallow, dumbed down and not even scratching the surface of the mine of gold that could have been featured. I had high hopes for it, but they were sadly dashed.

As for David Liddiment.......who gives a flying toss what he thinks about anything. I heard him the other day on "The Media Show" in his capacity as a BBC Trustee.... I wasn't impressed by him and never have been.

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Richard F »

Roll ACR wrote:Couldn't agree more Simon. It's been interesting at work since the programme aired. Quite a number of people in the business and ex-Granada have absolutely slated it for being shallow, dumbed down and not even scratching the surface of the mine of gold that could have been featured. I had high hopes for it, but they were sadly dashed.

As for David Liddiment.......who gives a flying toss what he thinks about anything. I heard him the other day on "The Media Show" in his capacity as a BBC Trustee.... I wasn't impressed by him and never have been.
Indeed - World In Action "retired" in 1998 but the tradition of current affairs is still going strong eh?

Apart from the brief theme park allusion, were there any other hints at the disasters of the late eighties/early nineties or the rise of the "upstart caterers" and the stories recounted in The Dream That Died when suppliers weren't getting their bills paid and had to send bailiffs into Quay Street for the money....?

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by GarethR »

Roll ACR wrote: As for David Liddiment.......who gives a flying toss what he thinks about anything
I'm always reminded of the Liddiment-fronted Who Killed Saturday Night TV... which, oddly enough, completely failed to mention that Liddiment carries a great deal of culpability thanks to his brainwave of putting Champions League football into ITV Saturday prime-time in the early 00s. That's the moment when ITV lost its dominance of Saturday night programming and handed the advantage back to the BBC for the first time in decades.

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Simon36 »

GarethR wrote:
Roll ACR wrote: As for David Liddiment.......who gives a flying toss what he thinks about anything
I'm always reminded of the Liddiment-fronted Who Killed Saturday Night TV... which, oddly enough, completely failed to mention that Liddiment carries a great deal of culpability thanks to his brainwave of putting Champions League football into ITV Saturday prime-time in the early 00s. That's the moment when ITV lost its dominance of Saturday night programming and handed the advantage back to the BBC for the first time in decades.
Did Liddiment front that? He did When Soaps Ruled The World but I swear he didnt do the Sat Night TV one. I lost my recording of it years ago much to my regret but honestly dont remember him featuring.

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David Boothroyd
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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by David Boothroyd »

Simon36 wrote:
GarethR wrote:
Roll ACR wrote:Did Liddiment front that? He did When Soaps Ruled The World but I swear he didnt do the Sat Night TV one. I lost my recording of it years ago much to my regret but honestly dont remember him featuring.
It didn't have a presenter; it was narrated by Barbara Houseman.

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Steve Williams »

GarethR wrote:I'm always reminded of the Liddiment-fronted Who Killed Saturday Night TV... which, oddly enough, completely failed to mention that Liddiment carries a great deal of culpability thanks to his brainwave of putting Champions League football into ITV Saturday prime-time in the early 00s. That's the moment when ITV lost its dominance of Saturday night programming and handed the advantage back to the BBC for the first time in decades.
As mentioned, he didn't actually present that, he did Who Killed The Sitcom about eighteen months later (like the soaps one, a Granada production while the Saturday Night TV show was produced by the now defunct At It).

This is going off topic a bit but I'm not actually sure the introduction of the Premier League to Saturday night completely turned around Saturday nights as you're suggesting. For one thing, it was only a few years before that in the mid-nineties that ITV were struggling badly on Saturday nights, in 1996 BBC1 had Noel's House Party, the lottery and Casualty, while ITV only had the likes of Barrymore (which I remember the papers reporting was plummeting in the ratings from his pomp) and The Shane Richie Experience, which were huge flops and everyone was gleefully reporting ITV's decline, so I'm pretty sure the Beeb had the upper hand at that point. I think it was pretty neck and neck in the mid-nineties and it only swung back to ITV when the House Party and the lottery started running out of steam.

And I don't think it made much of a difference after because immediately after the Premier League moved out of that slot there was Pop Idol and that was a huge hit, so much so that by the end it was absolutely hammering The Generation Game and that got axed. From there you had Popstars The Rivals and Pop idol II for the next two autumns while BBC1 fiddled around with the likes of The Chair, Fame Academy, The Waiting Game and loads of other forgettable formats. I would certainly argue Strictly had more of an impact on ITV's Saturday nights than the Premier League. Everyone had forgotten about that within weeks.

For what it's worth the Premier League at 7pm was a terrible compromise because they wanted to do it at 6pm, right after the final whistle so it would seem more exciting and fewer people would know the results, plus allow them to do all the usual fare, but contractually they weren't allowed to do that. To my mind, if they couldn't do 6pm it would have been better at 8pm where it would be opposite Casualty, a slot ITV always lost anyway, which would be an obvious alternative. But 7pm was the worst of both worlds.

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Re: "Goodbye Granadaland" Jun 15

Post by Simon36 »

Who Killed Saturday Night TV is a gloriously entertaining programme but astounding in its lack of interest in fact. It breaks its subject down into genres and then presents them chronologically when they clearly weren't. Its factually worthless but it does have some nice clips and interesting reflections.

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