Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

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stearn
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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

Post by stearn »

IIRC, Roger Wilmut worked at TS, and the information is in his books on The Goons and Hancock.

I appreciate the compliment about writing a book about TS, but I never worked there and I don't think any paperwork now exists. All I know has been pieced together from various conversations, snippets of information, the catalogues, and educated guesswork.

I do know that reels of tape of Take It From Here and ISIRTA that were dumped from TS archives were the original TLO master tapes that had been edited to suit TS issues, with the edits spliced on the end of the tape as per the normal practise. If a master tape was retained by the archive selection process for the Sound Archive, either a dupe was made if TS wanted it, or TS didn't get offered it. I realise I now have to listen to a dozen editions of Ray's A Laugh. Can I do Community Service instead? ;)

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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

Post by Mark »

Have to agree with Ian, only hard facts will do with this complex subject.

Have you read the Ted Kendall interview on 'The Legacy Of The Goon Show' Site, a large number of tapes for erasure were used to fill a wall cavity in a TS editing suite...scary stuff!
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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

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I've had many a long chat with Ted, and I remember being told that during one of our earliest meetings. It was Ted that told me there was a year zero in around 1954/5 where the catalogue was started anew. It is possible there are versions of the old catalogue long forgotten on some shelf in a broadcaster or national library, but I pulled together the most complete catalogue covering the post 54/5 period from various sources and still have no real idea how complete it actually is. The contract paperwork I saw at Woodlands well over a decade ago has, as far as I can tell, long gone, as although I am pretty sure I saw the crates with it in at Caversham when I was researching for the Genome project, enquiries I made a year or two later drew blanks and no-one even remembered the crates!

The Transcription Service is a fascinating subject, and I would love to talk to those who were involved with it - policy, choosing recordings to include, processes etc., but the catalogues and the recordings are my real interest.

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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

Post by Mark »

Those early catalogues would great to see, I'm sure they must exist somewhere.

On that Ted Kendall interview, he mentions the radio 4 policy in 1985, that programmes in a half hour slot, must be at least 29'15', and having to restore "The International Christmas Pudding" to the required length, by using two issues of the TS version, original and re-issue.

So there can be different length TS recordings, if I have read that right.
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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

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AFAIK there were at least two different edits issued: Commonwealth and US. Obviously the Commonwealth was more aligned with the UK so it was presumed they would understand references and gags that the Yanks wouldn't. In practice I doubt that would have made a huge difference overall. Australia and Canada were both broadcasting commissions, and not so commercially voracious as the US stations, so Commonwealth issues were generally longer as there was less need for advertising space. The RAL issues are roughly 28'45" for each show, and there is a note on the catalogue page to say they are available in the USA on special terms only, so standard Commonwealth issue. I've seen some USA discs running to 26'30".

I'm not altogether sure why a re-issue would be shorter, but that could simply be it was aimed at a more commercial market.

Perivale do still have tape holdings, so some programmes that have been broadcast by R4X have been restored by Keith Wickham using the discs in my collection and asking Perivale to digitise the ends of the tape where all the edits were spliced. Personnel changes over the years had meant that the knowledge that edits were spliced on the end of tapes had been lost so those edits had been forgotten about.

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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

Post by Mark »

Thanks for that, it really is fascinating stuff, so there can be different edits of TS recordings, it does make it even more complex, it would be very interesting to know what survives of series, SA recordings, TS edits as well as domestic recordings, a radio version of the KAL guides would be great.

I notice with some TS recordings, such as "The Clitheroe Kid", they have 'Recorded By The BBC' added, although they are not always there.

As an aside, it would be great to know what survives of trails, when 4ex began repeating "Brothers In Law", they broadcast a couple of special original trails which featured Richard Briers explaining the series and ending by saying when it was on.
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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

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TS62 Jackson. There is a new arrival at the office.
TS63 The Overdraft. £500 can go a long way.
TS64 Wheezy's Cigarettes. Collecting coupons could be Ted's route to a new set of clubs.
TS65 Hercules The Second. Ted enters a bodybuilding competition.
TS66 New Dress Code. Ted is reluctant to adopt the smarter dress code at work.
TS67 Not Married. Ted embraces the bachelor life.
TS68 Baron Ted. Ted comes into a title.
TS69 The Camera. Burning the family photo album by mistake leads to a recreation.
TS70 The French Visitor

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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

Post by ian b »

Interesting to see that TS gave the episodes titles in the sales brochures - they certainly aren't on the actual record labels, (or the scripts come to the that!)

Just for the record, what did they assign for 62, 63 and 64? And presumably 64,is the cigarette coupon ep?

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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

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Those are my titles for the shows having listened to them. On the catalogue pages there are no titles or descriptions.
I'll be going through all the shows I have and will update the post above. I only started with those as 9/5 was mentioned so I listened to the 5th TS edition first and then worked my way around to see if it was the show held in archives.

4 a day is my limit, so it'll be a week or more before I get through them all.

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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

Post by Mark »

That's great, so both versions of 9/5 do exist.

Also read somewhere, that 100 copies were made of each disc, and that some discs just had one recording and a blank side.
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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

Post by ian b »

Mark wrote:that some discs just had one recording and a blank side.
A TS package made up of an uneven number of shows needs a blank side somewhere along the line.

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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

Post by stearn »

Personally I would have preferred not to have the duplication as it would have meant there would be another show extant.

Depends if they were 12" or 10" discs. The 10" discs were paired up so you could get continuous play for a show i.e TS62/3 A paired with TS62/3 B. The final three shows would be over 3 discs, where all sides were used. If it were 12" discs, there would be a single show per side and you would end up with a blank side. There were rather nice ornamental pressings on the blank sides - I'll see if I can find one and take a snap.

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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

Post by ian b »

stearn wrote:TS62 Jackson. There is a new arrival at the office.
TS63 The Overdraft. £500 can go a long way.
TS64 Wheezy's Cigarettes. Collecting coupons could be Ted's route to a new set of clubs.
TS65 Hercules The Second. Ted enters a bodybuilding competition.
TS66 New Dress Code. Ted is reluctant to adopt the smarter dress code at work.
TS67 Not Married. Ted embraces the bachelor life.
TS68 Baron Ted. Ted comes into a title.
TS69 The Camera. Burning the family photo album by mistake leads to a recreation.
TS70 The French Visitor
I can update this slightly...

TS71 9/20 Ted, the fountain of energy
TS72 9/21 chickens
TS73 9/23 The dress-makers dummy

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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

Post by ian b »

Looks like R4X are giving us a run of the earliest, as originally transmitted, TS issues of LIFE WITH THE LYONS for the next few weeks.

Despite TS1 being the first episode of the fourth series, TS13, 30, 21 and 22 are second series episodes, while TS16, 28, 27, 18 and 29 were taken from the third.

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Re: Ray's a Laugh - new to 4 Extra

Post by Mark »

I think there have been about 19 episodes broadcast before, possibly a mix of sound archive and that large collection of tapes that turned up?

Great to get some more though.
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