Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

What's not currently on the box
Post Reply
ArchiveTvfan43
625 lines
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:54 am

Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

The BFI almost 99% seem to have found and catalogued in their archive the original 2 inch colour videotapes of two episodes from the final series of "the worker" from 1970 which were previously only known to exist as black and white telerecordings, the 2 episodes that are held and listed on the archive database are "Breed in for speed breed out for stanima" and "the saucerers apprentice" Great news. and Chris Perry from kaleidoscope has said that he as almost completely certain that is what they have and that they are from a large collection of ATV videotapes that were donated from c. 1998-2008 which the BFI is still cataloguing. The BFI seem to have made transfers from the tapes also. A bit of nice news to cheer us up a bit in these grey times

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3806
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by Mark »

It's excellent news, great series "The Worker", and "The Saucerer's Apprentice" is one of my favourite episodes, very odd and surreal.

Look forward to more, whatever it is, and can't help hoping there may be some colour "Timeslip" to come!

Love to know the background to these tapes.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

User avatar
doubleM
625 lines
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by doubleM »

I'm hopeful there will be some more ATV discoveries at the BFI, either missing material or programmes currently only available as film (usually b/w) telerecordings. There's a lot of scope for early-70s colour material.

With what has been (re)discovered so far in the last 15 years or so, perhaps more likely to be Elstree rather than Birmingham productions given that the former was the site where most of the then marketable material was taped.

Fingers crossed!
A THRILLER in Every Corner 700+ pages on the Brian Clemens 1970s suspense anthology
https://www.lulu.com/en/gb/shop/martin- ... qd6n5.html

ArchiveTvfan43
625 lines
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

Mark wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:58 pm
It's excellent news, great series "The Worker", and "The Saucerer's Apprentice" is one of my favourite episodes, very odd and surreal.

Look forward to more, whatever it is, and can't help hoping there may be some colour "Timeslip" to come!

Love to know the background to these tapes.
Do all of the 1978 episodes exist? Apparently they do and network mistakenly believed they didn't

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3806
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by Mark »

According to the KAL guide they all exist, as does all of the "Big Night" shows.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

ArchiveTvfan43
625 lines
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

Mark wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:56 am
According to the KAL guide they all exist, as does all of the "Big Night" shows.
Bizzare then how network thought those 3 mini episodes were the only ones that survived then

fatcat
D-MAC
Posts: 957
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by fatcat »

The situation possibly goes back to when Polygram bought the remains of ATV in the 1980s, the archive part they were not particularly interested in as they really didn't know anything about archive TV, so the archive did not receive much investment at all and was just a sideline for reissuing the well-known perennials (Randall & Hopkirk etc) as cheap as possible which meant a 16mm copy would do, transfered to the then 1' tape standard for broadcast. They probably took one look at the huge tape archive of all the other ATV programmes and considered the time and cost of researching/checking tapes, finding machines that could actually play it ...and then shut the door on it, where it moved from pillar to post until the BFI got hold of it a few years ago. The BFI now has the burden of keeping the obsolete 2' tape standard running, while others research what they have got..and its gonna take some time, but hopefully more pleasant surprises are in store.
The East Midlands archive took all the ATV news programmes and the pleasant surprise they found was many location inserts for Crossroads, as in the 1960s when news programmes were short and sweet, the budget conscientious Crossroads producers, would borrow (probably over a beer or two) a local news cameraman to film their location work. Something they could not do when the news programmes got longer in the 70s.

User avatar
Simon Coward
D-MAC
Posts: 960
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:56 pm

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by Simon Coward »

ArchiveTvfan43 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:11 am
Mark wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:56 am
According to the KAL guide they all exist, as does all of the "Big Night" shows.
Bizzare then how network thought those 3 mini episodes were the only ones that survived then
Yes, I don't know what happened there. The existence of the six non-Big Night editions is something that we've only been able to confirm from catalogue data, if you like, rather than actually viewing the programmes themselves. But I can say without any doubt, having been able to see them with my own eyes, that the four mini-episodes that were shown as part of Big Night do all survive as part of the recordings of Big Night itself. They're also catalogued as surviving as separate segments too but again, that's just 'data' rather than something I've confirmed first-hand, and for certain.
We all have to eat a peck of dirt before we die.

User avatar
doubleM
625 lines
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by doubleM »

fatcat wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:25 am
The situation possibly goes back to when Polygram bought the remains of ATV in the 1980s
Polygram didn't take control of the ITC group (and therefore the ATV back catalogue) until 1995 (although they distributed ITC Home Video releases under licence before that ). It had been part of a management buyout (as the ITC Group) from the Bond Corporation (who had acquired it from the Bell Group) in 1988, relinquishing it to the management following Bond's troubles at the time.

Polygram only held the company for about three years when Seagram/Universal bought out PolyGram itself in 1988. The ITC/ATV archive then passed from Seagram to Carlton Communications in early 1999 due to regulatory anti-trust issues

Carlton remained in control of ATV/ITC until Carlton itself was subsumed by Granada into ITV plc in the mid-2000s, where the rights have remained to this day.
A THRILLER in Every Corner 700+ pages on the Brian Clemens 1970s suspense anthology
https://www.lulu.com/en/gb/shop/martin- ... qd6n5.html

ArchiveTvfan43
625 lines
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

Simon Coward wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:59 am
ArchiveTvfan43 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:11 am
Mark wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:56 am
According to the KAL guide they all exist, as does all of the "Big Night" shows.
Bizzare then how network thought those 3 mini episodes were the only ones that survived then
Yes, I don't know what happened there. The existence of the six non-Big Night editions is something that we've only been able to confirm from catalogue data, if you like, rather than actually viewing the programmes themselves. But I can say without any doubt, having been able to see them with my own eyes, that the four mini-episodes that were shown as part of Big Night do all survive as part of the recordings of Big Night itself. They're also catalogued as surviving as separate segments too but again, that's just 'data' rather than something I've confirmed first-hand, and for certain.
Well at least 3 episodes of the original ATV series are now known to exist on Colour VT. Where did the pre-broadcast colour version of "Hallo cobbler" come from /where was it found? Comparing it to the black and white telerecording of the broadcast version the telerecording is in abysmal shape.

ArchiveTvfan43
625 lines
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

Simon Coward wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:59 am
ArchiveTvfan43 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:11 am
Mark wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:56 am
According to the KAL guide they all exist, as does all of the "Big Night" shows.
Bizzare then how network thought those 3 mini episodes were the only ones that survived then
Yes, I don't know what happened there. The existence of the six non-Big Night editions is something that we've only been able to confirm from catalogue data, if you like, rather than actually viewing the programmes themselves. But I can say without any doubt, having been able to see them with my own eyes, that the four mini-episodes that were shown as part of Big Night do all survive as part of the recordings of Big Night itself. They're also catalogued as surviving as separate segments too but again, that's just 'data' rather than something I've confirmed first-hand, and for certain.
Are the surviving black and white prints used for the dvd release of the colour episodes the only telerecording prints that exist? They are in poor shape but it's better than nothing

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3806
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by Mark »

I should think so, well used more than likely.

Can't recall the back story of "Hallo Cobbler", first Colour one I think, so perhaps just survived.

It's lucky the "Night Out" segments survive separately, as I think only one of the "Cannon And Ball" ones went out, and there are 3 surviving.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

ArchiveTvfan43
625 lines
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

Mark wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:55 am
I should think so, well used more than likely.

Can't recall the back story of "Hallo Cobbler", first Colour one I think, so perhaps just survived.

It's lucky the "Night Out" segments survive separately, as I think only one of the "Cannon And Ball" ones went out, and there are 3 surviving.
It's excellent news that the BFI have these two episodes on their original colour VT but I don't know if we will ever get a re release of them, the dvd release has came and went years ago, but network still stocks it on dvd so it must still sell well. Its a shame as the telerecordings are quite poor

User avatar
stearn
Committee
Posts: 832
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:48 pm

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by stearn »

ArchiveTvfan43 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:32 pm
It's excellent news that the BFI have these two episodes on their original colour VT but I don't know if we will ever get a re release of them, the dvd release has came and went years ago, but network still stocks it on dvd so it must still sell well. Its a shame as the telerecordings are quite poor
Or that could read, they still stock it on DVD as they haven't exhausted their original pressing as no-one wants to buy it.

ArchiveTvfan43
625 lines
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

stearn wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:48 pm
ArchiveTvfan43 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:32 pm
It's excellent news that the BFI have these two episodes on their original colour VT but I don't know if we will ever get a re release of them, the dvd release has came and went years ago, but network still stocks it on dvd so it must still sell well. Its a shame as the telerecordings are quite poor
Or that could read, they still stock it on DVD as they haven't exhausted their original pressing as no-one wants to buy it.
That as well.

fatcat
D-MAC
Posts: 957
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:02 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by fatcat »

Poor old Charlie was pretty much forgotten by the mid-70s ( I reckon) for his TV work at least, his shows were not repeated AFAIK and consequently following generations have no memory of him.

ATV did a bells and whistles publicity launch on his 71 series Slapstick & Old Lace (sort of 'Good Old Days' style) and got it into a good slot but that only lasted about 6 episodes. But who knows that may even turn up in the BFI's present trawl through the ATV archive.

ArchiveTvfan43
625 lines
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

fatcat wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:24 pm
Poor old Charlie was pretty much forgotten by the mid-70s ( I reckon) for his TV work at least, his shows were not repeated AFAIK and consequently following generations have no memory of him.

ATV did a bells and whistles publicity launch on his 71 series Slapstick & Old Lace (sort of 'Good Old Days' style) and got it into a good slot but that only lasted about 6 episodes. But who knows that may even turn up in the BFI's present trawl through the ATV archive.
Hopefully more goodies will turn up!

Mark
Committee
Posts: 3806
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by Mark »

It's also possible, the set has had more pressings!

Perhaps the two episodes could be included on an ATV collection set of odds and ends, would be quite nice.

"The Worker" really was a work of genius, in my opinion, but "Slapstick And Old Lace", although obviously a different thing altogether, wasn't all that great, from what I remember, wouldn't mind seeing it again though.

Despite stories of Drake being somewhat difficult, he was very funny I thought, I even like his films.

He was an advisor on some of the "Cannon And Ball" shows, in the 80's, and also did straight acting, I remember watching him on TV in the Beckett Play, "Endgame", where he spent the whole time in a Dustbin.
"A cup of Tea....Tea...Tea"

User avatar
Simon Coward
D-MAC
Posts: 960
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:56 pm

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by Simon Coward »

Mark wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:56 pm
"The Worker" really was a work of genius, in my opinion, but "Slapstick And Old Lace", although obviously a different thing altogether, wasn't all that great, from what I remember, wouldn't mind seeing it again though.
I'd really like to see "Who Is Sylvia?" even though one part is missing.
We all have to eat a peck of dirt before we die.

ArchiveTvfan43
625 lines
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

Simon Coward wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:10 pm
Mark wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:56 pm
"The Worker" really was a work of genius, in my opinion, but "Slapstick And Old Lace", although obviously a different thing altogether, wasn't all that great, from what I remember, wouldn't mind seeing it again though.
I'd really like to see "Who Is Sylvia?" even though one part is missing.
Where was the surviving Colour videotape pre- broadcast version of Hallo Cobbler found? It is massively miles better in picture and sound compared to the telerecording and it works so much better in telerecordings. Some parts of the musical courtroom scene haven't aged too well such as Charlie blacking up as a aboriginal and saying the n word a few times it's of its time, but apart from that the rest is generally is harmless fun and it's great.

hartleyhair
405 lines
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:32 pm

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by hartleyhair »

Simon Coward wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:10 pm
Mark wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:56 pm
"The Worker" really was a work of genius, in my opinion, but "Slapstick And Old Lace", although obviously a different thing altogether, wasn't all that great, from what I remember, wouldn't mind seeing it again though.
I'd really like to see "Who Is Sylvia?" even though one part is missing.
According to tv brain 11.03.1967 The Man from C.L.U.N.K. (missing)
18.03.1967 The Man Who Couldn't Hold His Peace (missing) are missing from the archives at some point there was only one episode in existence so hopefully more shall turn up some day.

hartleyhair
405 lines
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:32 pm

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by hartleyhair »

ArchiveTvfan43 wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:37 pm
fatcat wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:24 pm
Poor old Charlie was pretty much forgotten by the mid-70s ( I reckon) for his TV work at least, his shows were not repeated AFAIK and consequently following generations have no memory of him.

ATV did a bells and whistles publicity launch on his 71 series Slapstick & Old Lace (sort of 'Good Old Days' style) and got it into a good slot but that only lasted about 6 episodes. But who knows that may even turn up in the BFI's present trawl through the ATV archive.
Hopefully more goodies will turn up!
I hope more goodies turn up to from this mysterious pile of 2 inch video tapes, i would love to find out the history of what they are and where they came from.

ArchiveTvfan43
625 lines
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Charlie drake the worker Good news-Archive situation, 2 original colour VT almost certainly rediscovered

Post by ArchiveTvfan43 »

Simon Coward wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:10 pm
Mark wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:56 pm
"The Worker" really was a work of genius, in my opinion, but "Slapstick And Old Lace", although obviously a different thing altogether, wasn't all that great, from what I remember, wouldn't mind seeing it again though.
I'd really like to see "Who Is Sylvia?" even though one part is missing.
Does Charlie drake's 1961 this is your life appearance survive?

Post Reply