Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

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paul.austin
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Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by paul.austin »

Should ITV Border Scotland be discontinued and the Scottish transmitters instead used for an STV South?
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

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No 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

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Only because I’ve fond memories of Border TV back in the day. Seriously though I get why you are asking, but a potentially politically charged issue with all the talk of Indi Ref 2.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by paul.austin »

Sorry, I seem to have a one-sided hatred of ITV PLC.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

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To be honest IMHO it’s a shadow of its formal regional self.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by brigham »

Richard Woods wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 7:05 am To be honest IMHO it’s a shadow of its formal regional self.
The whole concept of broadcast television is a shadow of its former self.
It's largely become a background noise.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by Richard Woods »

100% agree with the honourable exception of Talking Pictures TV of course.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by Brock »

Richard Woods wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 6:59 am Only because I’ve fond memories of Border TV back in the day. Seriously though I get why you are asking, but a potentially politically charged issue with all the talk of Indi Ref 2.
Ever since devolution, it's always struck me as anomalous to have an ITV region taking in parts of two different nations (although I understand that there are separate sub-regional services for each). If broadcasting policy were devolved, I doubt whether such arrangements would be allowed to continue.

Certainly in the event of an independent Scotland ITV Border Scotland would have to close!
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by stearn »

Brock wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 11:10 am Certainly in the event of an independent Scotland ITV Border Scotland would have to close!
Would it? ITV is a commercial enterprise so I suspect wouldn't be affected that much - paying to different governments and possibly rebranding some services. There are two transmitters as far as I can tell, and whilst one, Selkirk, is pretty much following the border in terms of transmission area, the Caldbeck one looks to be designed to be stopped by the Southern Uplands. Surely the topography will dictate the regions as it always has done. Of course, there is nothing to stop either government from requiring the building of new transmitters to better define the regions, but I would guess the media landscape just wouldn't warrant that sort of expense or bother.

The BBC, on the other hand, could be interesting.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

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IIRC Caldbeck transmits both versions of Border & BBC with the Scottish versions on higher power. Back in pre 625 days when we lived at Carlisle, BBC1 & BBC Scotland came from Sandale from memory and Border came from Caldbeck. All had cracking signals with a loft H aerial pulling in the lot. Apparently we could also pick up one of the Scottish Border repeater signals.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

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Richard Woods wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:34 am IIRC Caldbeck transmits both versions of Border & BBC with the Scottish versions on higher power. Back in pre 625 days when we lived at Carlisle, BBC1 & BBC Scotland came from Sandale from memory and Border came from Caldbeck. All had cracking signals with a loft H aerial pulling in the lot. Apparently we could also pick up one of the Scottish Border repeater signals.
Thanks, I couldn't find that information out from quickly googling.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by Private Frazer »

Hope it stays as it is with Border being what it says on the tin and I really like the news from STV North; don't need STV Central's!
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by paul.austin »

It would be a new STV South, not added to STV Central, surely?
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by Private Frazer »

Oh I see - keeping the 2 present STV regions and creating a new one (hope not). Thanks.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by brigham »

I would have thought that Scotland was too large and diverse to be served by only one ITV region.

But then, it's been reduced to one police force...
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by paul.austin »

On a similar note, given the dimensions of the Irish Question, getting largely rid of the UTV identity in favour of the English ITV brand was both incredibly stupid and dangerous. I hope they would have known not to have dared had ITV PLC existed during the Troubles.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

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paul.austin wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 9:31 am On a similar note, given the dimensions of the Irish Question, getting largely rid of the UTV identity in favour of the English ITV brand was both incredibly stupid and dangerous. I hope they would have known not to have dared had ITV PLC existed during the Troubles.
Perhaps you should send a letter to ITV plc. to outline their follies. I am sure they would welcome it. Green ink usually stands out from the crowd.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

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I'm so glad you got the point.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by Brock »

I wouldn't trivialize this issue. Since devolution in the 90s, it's always struck me as anomalous that broadcasting policy in the UK isn't devolved to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. (Contrast it with the situation in Germany, where the regional public-service broadcasters are the responsibility of the individual Länder.)
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by paul.austin »

stearn wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 1:59 pm I'm so glad you got the point.
I had 35 surgical operations before the age of three. I have stared death in the face multiple times. I will leave it to others to tell you why your flippancy is not a good response to my vaild point about imposing a brand from across the water. UTV itself dropped the Ulster part of its name in an attempt to reconcile with NI Catholics and indeed its viewers in the Twenty Six Counties.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

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I wasn't being flippant, trivialising it, neither was I playing on sympathy. ITV is a commercial concern and is there to make money, lots of it if it can. I doubt someone turned up for work one morning and thought 'sod it, lets call it...' without think tanks, consultations or the advertisers and accountants pitching in. Obviously your wisdom is greater, so drop them a line, but I suspect they will view it, green ink or not, in the way I suggest.

You also have to get out of the sentimentality mode. ITV isn't what it used to be. For a start the old analogue transmission areas have changed to digital, but so have the consumption methods. Does anyone call for Sky to have clearly badged regions, or Netflix, or Amazon? IIRC ITV had a bit of a fight with Apple because everything of theirs is preceded with an i, so had a claim on iTV. OK, there are some requirements in the franchises that ITV plc is comprised of, but those have been watered down to keep ITV commercially viable. No-one wants a gaping void where there was once TV - the shareholders certainly don't, and it would be a very embarrassed Government that would allow it on their shift.

Whilst devolution has changed the landscape, the landscape of media has changed far more. ITV is a television provider that serves a large area and happens to have some content aimed specifically at regions. It is no longer defined by those regions as reception of the programmes is no longer restricted to them. This isn't the same as the regional service that was original envisaged and was in place until the 90s, it is really only a brand name that has continued, a bit like Woolworths. The original is long gone, but there is some following and sentimentality in the name so someone will pay for it and trade off of it. I'll put my hands up here to admit I don't know much about the governing of Germany, but I thought it was federal, rather than devolved - something closer to devo-max - but does it make for better television? From a quick google search, I know ZDF is a single channel across all of Germany, but was their second channel. The first channels were the regional ones (like the original ITV franchises).

So, to Scotland. Consider Border to be an asset of ITV. Should STV, another commercial company, wish to bid for that asset as a plus to their own service, presumably they can and both companies would be able to talk to relevant authorities to make their case and make it happen. I think both are more interested in staying afloat and providing dividends to their shareholders than some land grab that makes things tidy for forums like this.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by paul.austin »

As you rightly point out, the UK is not a true federation like Germany. Should another Thatcher-type come along and find Holyrood or the Senedd inconvenient, Thatcher II wouldn't have to destroy them, but would just choke their money.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by stearn »

Oddly, though, it is independence that would choke their income stream and it is the Tories are more likely to want to keep the Union.

True independence would mean replacing the current income stream with another, which is why the SNP seem to be courting the EU. I can't see how swapping what they see as one overlord for another is independence. I may be too cynical, but it looks like the SNP are just keeping their fingers crossed for a career path in Europe that doesn't exist in the UK.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by paul.austin »

Spain's veto is why Scotland is in a pickle. Catalonia, you see.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

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That is almost certainly the issue for them joining the EU, but not for leaving the UK. The problem is where the money will come from in between. It wasn't long ago that is was their oil, then they bedded the Greens to stay in power. Shortbread and whiskey can only do so much and as much as that is a flippant comment, the SNP haven't come up with anything more sensible!
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by paul.austin »

Actually, that is quite a good point. IMHO, the SNP is still covertly the tartan-and-bagpipes nostalgia vehicle run by rural eccentrics that it was openly for most of the past century.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by fatcat »

paul.austin wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 6:51 pm
stearn wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 1:59 pm I'm so glad you got the point.
I had 35 surgical operations before the age of three. I have stared death in the face multiple times. I will leave it to others to tell you why your flippancy is not a good response to my vaild point about imposing a brand from across the water. UTV itself dropped the Ulster part of its name in an attempt to reconcile with NI Catholics and indeed its viewers in the Twenty Six Counties.
Why should UTV drop its name to appease the 26 counties ? it was not supposed to be seen there and they didn't pay a licence for it anyway.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by paul.austin »

i read online that it wanted to appeal better to its viewers in the Republic as well as Norn Iron nationalist viewers.
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Re: Should there be a single Scottish ITV region?

Post by fatcat »

paul.austin wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:45 pm i read online that it wanted to appeal better to its viewers in the Republic as well as Norn Iron nationalist viewers.
Yes come to think of it you are right - it probably sees itself as part of the Irish network now rather than the ITV network of old.

It was a peculiar situation in the past when they loathed anything British influenced yet were getting big aerials (or even cable) to pick up UTV or HTV in Wales.
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